compression / gain

[Iron Keys]

Quick question...

does the gain control on a compressor affect the whole signal or just the compressed signal? (the signal after the attack setting)

If the former... how does this benefit 'fattening' up a kick drum...? surely it'd only be making the tail a lot quieter in comparison to the initial hit, which surely would make it a lot less weighty...??? Then increasing the gain would make the peak level higher... so why bother even compressing it in first place???


1

 

[Formant024]

Not much of a rule there except, less is more Generaly, eq pre compression tends to make sound warmer and well rounded and eq post makes it cleaner.
Aside from that, its easier to work sloppy when compression is pre eq and chances control is lost occurs faster post eq.

 

[dacalion]

When I compress, I use a multiband compressor/limiter/gate, I start with the low band, then I do the high band and last the mids. Each range should have a gain as well (atleast mine does...). Then I use the overall gain to bring everything up to my desired level. I agree with Formant as far as sampled material goes but anything thats recorded or composed, I'll usually have to hit it a little harder with the compression to get near the same or close results.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Quick question...does the gain control on a compressor affect the whole signal or just the compressed signal? (the signal after the attack setting)

To answer your question, it usually means the whole signal. There are some quirky ones that affect the effected part but most dont, and you'd be able to tell (or it'd tell you). Look up the manual and its signal path to really know without a shadow of a doubt

 

[Kontents]

To answer your question, it usually means the whole signal. There are some quirky ones that affect the effected part but most dont, and you'd be able to tell (or it'd tell you). Look up the manual and its signal path to really know without a shadow of a doubt

Cosign.

If the compressor has a gain that says "input gain" that would be pre compressor signal. If anything use eq to fatten up the sound of the signal before adding compression.

 

[Shonsteez]

Theres a small caveat to using EQ "pre" compression though unless your doing "subtractive EQ" only since whatever freq's you boost will be squashed back down after the compressor enters the chain...theres no right or wrong since it depends on the sound your after but if your going for clarity and air in the top-end try subtractive EQ first, then insert a compressor - hit your signal however much you want, and then add another EQ for boosts if needed. Works for me anyways.

 

[LDB]

Theres a small caveat to using EQ "pre" compression though unless your doing "subtractive EQ" only since whatever freq's you boost will be squashed back down after the compressor enters the chain...theres no right or wrong since it depends on the sound your after but if your going for clarity and air in the top-end try subtractive EQ first, then insert a compressor - hit your signal however much you want, and then add another EQ for boosts if needed. Works for me anyways.

I'm LDB....and I approve this message^^^^^^^

1) if you're working with quality sounds your mix down will always go better so start with the best sounds and samples u can get.

2) in the mix it's more about getting things to sit right (occuppy there on space). So I'm usually cutting and not boosting. For one cutting is boosting to the ears. I.E. cut some bass freq from your piano track and "to the ears" they'll sound more clear and promonant. Same with heavy synths. Tracks other than bass lines and kicks drums will always add to the overall muddyness of a mix if you don't start cutting low freqs out.

And finally for drums (and other tracks!). Get a nice Parallel/New York compression chain going and I guarantee "them shitz will bang". Each of the 3 aspects of my Parallel compression chain are placed on individual returns (pre-fader). You'll be amazed at how many diff't tracks you can feed(send) can send a little signal from to one of those to tweak your mix therefore eliminating the need to add effects to each individual track. U can get your mix coming together in minutes with this technique.

 

[Haze47]

To answer the actual question…. The make up gain only affects the compressed signal…. The input gain affects the whole signal (you use this knob to almost overdrive the compressor so it gets all freaky and crunchy…..)

Also digging the debate on pre or post compression EQ….

Like Steezo said, eq’ing before the compressor is almost counter productive as, if you are boosting the compressor is going to clamp down on that frequency and bring the level down… If cutting the compressor will bring that frequency up, so in both cases you are almost back at square one frequency wise (lets not get into transients here yet)… but armed with that knowledge you can see where to use pre compression eq… if you pre comp eq, you can emphasise a certain frequency, so say for example you want your bass line to be warmer, but when you boost it it sounds too muddy, you can pre comp eq at about 250 quite large say 10dbs and hit a comp to bring the level down between 4-6dbs, leaving you with a summed EQ boost of 4-6dbs emphasised by the compressor (with all the artificial warming characteristics of your comp) at the exact point of the boost… meaning the comp is in effect saturating the 250 band with its transient artifacts and inherent characteristics, without touching the other frequencies as much (it is clamping down on the boost, so if you have the threshold set just right you are in effect only really compressing the bit you want to emphasise and leaving the other freqs untouched (per se!) obviously you could use a multi band comp to do this as well, but it sounds different because it is working without the cross over points so you don’t get that weird overlap of compressed and uncompressed signals that you do with multi banding…

With post comp eq, you are effectively adding dynamics back into the compressed signal, leaving a much more transparent effect in total….and lets be honest modern music is all about the manipulation of dynamics….

In general I personally EQ post comp, but as said pre comp has its benefits as well

Also to add to this discussion, I had the opinion, having spoken to mastering engineers, that you are only supposed to use mulit band dynamics if the track is seriously fudged…. And single bands and Eqs cant solve it…

Discuss!

 

[2GooD Productions]

Haze answered the OP already so I will ad some of my EQ pre comp method.
When compressing bass I always EQ pre compression, but I generally use a subtractive eq, cutting freqs below 30hz-40hz and dropping the muddyness area around 300hz before applying the compression. When compressing drums I use the EQ to cut below 40-50hz and a very slight boost at 85hz and a small boost at 15khz-20khz, this is more to shape the drums before compression.
And like stated by formant before, signal in = signal out in that I dont use the compressor to make the overall signal louder, but more to make the overall signal more balanced. Compressing the drums can add a nice effect to how the hi hats sound more natural, by how the the signal is affected due to the compression triggered usually by the higher volume kicks and snares, making some of the hi hats lower while some remaining as they were.
Sometimes I find it hard to explain, Im still a bit of a newbie when it comes to compression.

 

[Formant024]

Indeed, if you need a multiband compressor your mixing is off. This however is not always the case, but its better to avoid using one as a fix up.

 

[LDB]

Indeed, if you need a multiband compressor your mixing is off. This however is not always the case, but its better to avoid using one as a fix up.

Amen...fix it "per track" and not by master. If you're doing too much tweaking on the master channel you're definitely heading in the wrong direction. U should be very close to the infamous "industry curve" before you throw any thing on the master channel.

Make a Analyzer your best friend.

 

[Haze47]

that curve wouldnt work in dance music....no top...or is that for an individual instrument???

 

[LDB]

that curve wouldnt work in dance music....no top...or is that for an individual instrument???

Ummm..u obviously don't understand what you're looking at. That is how your overall freqency curve would look for the mix as a whole. Basically no offensive freqz jumping out at u.

 

[Haze47]

maybe, but if that is a paz read out, that would work on a big sound system....sound systems want a smile curve... i that isnt a paz peak readout, then yes i am probably wrong...

is it like an RMS readout???

 

[Cymatic Kicks]

thanks for that industry curve, it's nice to see, haven't seen in in a while.

 

[Iron Keys]

Theres a small caveat to using EQ "pre" compression though unless your doing "subtractive EQ" only since whatever freq's you boost will be squashed back down after the compressor enters the chain...theres no right or wrong since it depends on the sound your after but if your going for clarity and air in the top-end try subtractive EQ first, then insert a compressor - hit your signal however much you want, and then add another EQ for boosts if needed. Works for me anyways.

That's what I do.

Just nothing seems to get my drums to hammer/sound like I want. Hmmm.