Do you "songwrite" when you create a beat, or do you just make the beat?

[God]

I want to get the real deal here from you cats on a question I have:

How many of you guys do actual "songwriting" rather than just beat production?

By songwriting, I mean, you structure the beat, like (verse/pre-chorus/chorus/verse/pre-chorus/chorus/bridge/chorus) and you also write the chorus and any other "hooks" (and pre-chorus, if you're that advanced in songwriting) for the rapper.

Most cats just make a beat and they're done. They don't think about selling the "whole package."

I really want to know this.

 

[Fade]

I don't right now, but it's something I'm working towards. The way I'm doing my beats now is I'm trying to throw in some vocal samples as a hook, which is sort of like you're describing, but it's just a beat for now.

One thing that I think is a big issue for many beat makers, especially on here, is that it's hard to find a good MC to work with. I believe that by hooking up with an MC that you really want to make music with, will bring out the producer and songwriter in all of us.

So essentially, it's a matter of opportunity (at least for me).

 

[thedreampolice]

I always, always, always structure the beat. With traditional verse, chorus type structure. I came from a songwriter background, so at first it was actually really tough for me to make a beat with no lyrics. As of right now, I rarely write lyrics, but I always know when I make a track who would be the best person to wright to it and I usually pass it of to them. Then once the lyrics are done I redo the track with those lyrics in mind. Also I believe that this is an area where hip-hop is missing the boat, there needs to be a better focus and songwriting and not just beat making.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Always structure the beat and at least have a key phrase that can be turned into a hook. I try not to close the program till I at least have an idea for it.

 

[wrightboy]

i always structure the beat, and occasionally write hooks/choruses. It's always easier for me to come up with a hook if i'm working with the artist.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I always structure my beats, but dont pre write hooks, I envision how I would like a hook and support my idea in the music, but I find artists usually have their own ideas, so allow for that.

 

[Sucio]

Luckily the artist I work with does that for me.... I would usually have the beat and a hook demo'd when presenting. I don't write my own...but I do develop concepts and the dude puts them into words. Sometimes if I come up with something, I name it the concept....(ie: a beat I called "money over everything", sent to him and he came up with a hook using that).

 

[Formant024]

I dont structure beats, unless the mc is writing while i compose..
Else i just have the barebone of the track which just be 1 bar since laying out the whole is better when you have the vocals.

 

[Relic]

I always "song write " aka arangement so others have something to work off of.

 

[Medl4]

If I'm making the beat with the intention of somebody rapping over it, I will be very specific with the structure, sometimes there may be a hook or I may tell the emcee to just burn the thing down, depending on the vibe of the beat. But if I'm producing a standalone instrumental I like to keep it crazy, little sounds coming in & out or just once, I still keep the bars in proportion, 8's 4's 16's etc. So that its correct musically though.

 

[Cymatic Kicks]

I'll often make a beat first and then develop those ideas into a song.

 

[Greg Savage]

No, I just create the music. I've been doing a lot of film scoring over the last 3-4 years so no. No songwriting

 

[dacalion]

Same as Medl4...but I'm not trying to be a producer, I'm just trying to have fun with it and mix things up a bit. I will structure my beats but I'll do something crazy as well. I'm sick of the cookie cutter bs.

 

[Iron Keys]

Personally, this is just my 2, 4, and 30pence...

When you plan on working with a vocal artist/topliner (as in someone writing the lyrics), the structure of the song can change... this is why I would say it's not necessary to worry about having a perfectly defined structure to the song before hand.

Sometimes I may just make the main idea for the verse/chorus and send that.

It could be wise though, if you like, to make a couple of sections/phrases, so you'll naturally have your verse and pre chorus, and chorus, and perhaps just add little breaks or middle 8s, but don't worry too much about it all being perfectly arranged, just use it as an 'idea', so the topliner may think of a cool hook/refrain idea etc for those parts, then you can restructure the song to make best use of the arrangement.

You could always get sent a simple straight 16/8/16/8 but you'll hear something, or think of a part of that that could be repeated in the song just before/after the chorus etc. That's partly your job as a producer!!! and where extra fun and creativity can be had.

At the moment, I'm working with a singer, her song is already written, and I'm building around it, however, there are some parts I think work really well, and am trying out using them as a refrain etc (i forget the other words for now). Just listen to really good songs, and look at what they do to give you some ideas.

I'd say in the idea/rough stage, don't worry about it, as it'll all take a new shape when you work with the writer/topliner/vocalist etc.

Hope this helps, apologies for my lack of eloquence in explaining things.

~IronKeys

 

[MizzHitZBeats]

I usually structure the beat as a whole song. I may rap or sing to the beat to make sure that there is enough space in the track for the artist to shine.

Im not the best songwriter but I've been practicing. For artists that buy beats online. They don't care much about the hook as long as it's catchy.

I've seen beats that had hooks on them that repeated the same 2 lines over and over sell like hot cakes. Lol.

Really, all music boils down too, is the rhythm and catchiness. If the song is catchy and a person can't get it out of there head. That's what will sell. Hmmm...

Maybe I've been going at it too hard. Just gotta let it flow.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I have to agree with Iron Keys.
My production dynamic has changed. I find it a lot easier to record an artist to a straight 16, and then build around the vocals to create a finished article. A lot of times it also depends on the artist, if they can ride a fully arranged beat and do it so that it doesnt just sound like words over a beat(it works with the beat as a whole), then I will just record straight to the finished instrumental.
I think the bottom line is versatility, to be able to make music in as many ways as possible, without putting "limits" or "rules" into it. That way you will be able to adapt to most situations, for whatever is being required. And to gain the best of all worlds.

 

[Iron Keys]

I have to agree with Iron Keys.

I think the bottom line is versatility, to be able to make music in as many ways as possible, without putting "limits" or "rules" into it. That way you will be able to adapt to most situations, for whatever is being required. And to gain the best of all worlds.

^This, definitely.

Basically, It sucks to be stuck! Is real whack when you find a cool vocalist to work with (or whatever), or any sort of project for that matter, and you suddenly need to do somethign that you can't really manage. Best way to improve this is by working on projects that make you work in ways you're unaccustomed to, dislike, or find awkward.

I've started learning more music theory again, at first can be a nuisance as I try to too rigidly /mathematically make a track and it sounds dead or restricted, but then I might play a cool progression, or bassline, and because of the theory I just 'know' what I can add to it, it basically speeds up and smooths out the process, minimalising those patches of "argh I just can't get this bit right"!

In terms of songwriting though, it can help greatly. If you think about 'sections' of a track, you can make good sections and piece them together, I find sometimes easier than trying to full out do the whole track from start to finish. Sometimes tracks don't need much variation in certain parts, some sound brilliant with them. I think just considering these possibilities is what will benefit most. Helps you make better decisions.