Anyone want their beat mixed?

[Iron Keys]

Iron Keys - "Fyyn3stSymphoni - Troubles (mix by Iron Keys)"

Here's the original:

Fyyn3stSymphoni - "Troubles (4)"

F

Really cool beat, really cool music and sounds. I fuck with this.

Other than your drums needing a little rescuing - I employed a similar approach to what I did on Dusty's beat - refer to the DRUMS feedback I gave him, very similar.

Only different thing here, is I boosted the low on the kick to have some thump... so when it hit, I had it dynamically EQ the same freq in the bass.

The main problem on your mix was --- TOO MUCH INSTRUMENTATION

I had to make some arrangement decisions here... I listened to your original, and also to the trackouts in my session, and had to decide what sounds felt like were key and leading this record. Mainly that guitar sample and a few others; much of the background sounds were just taking away from the definition and brilliance of the main sounds, so I simply cut them out in certain sections. This allowed the song to have some real definition and intention.
Later in the mix, I really wanted to try and keep in as many of your elements as possible, so tried to persevere here, this is probably what took the most effort in the mix; typically I would just leave a bunch of it out.

Some of the instrumentation was clashing, both sonically (similar frequencies) and musically (timing, style, and notes - a lot of clashes).
Important point to take here, is try and make sure your elements all support and work with eachother;
if you have one high mid melody, playing fast notes, add your next melody playing slow, lower pitch sounds; that's not to say you can't have multiple sounds in similar range and similar style, you just have to really make sure they are working.
So I did a lot of muting and unmuting of elements to see what felt most important in each secion.
A lot of eq involved taking out low mids as it was getting muddy, and this helped aid seperation and clarity.
Some of the mud came from some notes playing maybe diff-key or at least dissonant notes at the same times as others.

I referenced Expensive - Ty Dolla Sign, Nikki Minaj.

Originally I felt to keep your beat as a darker one in texture, but the guitar vibes were quite hi fi, so i took it a little bit that way. One of your extra guitar melodies that comes in (i panned), I panned and dirtied it up a little to make the texture fit.

This provided a lot of challenges and made me dig in n work. Great beat.

 

[Jimothy Swing]

In this mix, first thing I needed to do was just get a nice balance between all the elements.
As it's a sparse mix, really important to get the balance right so it sounds cohesive, and make sure it tickles all the right parts of the freq range.

In your initial mix, the hat was too loud - I addressed this in the balance, but put it louder than i typically would due to it being louder in some of the references i used.

As you had two different kick drum sounds playing at different times, I had to ensure getting the balance between them right so they worked musically.
I also made sure they both had enough thump and low end to both sound related and also make up for the lack of bass on the record.

I liked the idea of keeping the vocal fairly dry and up front, but experimented with having some verb/delay on it (how i typically would in my own tracks), thought you may like how it sounds so thought i'd keep it on, it also helped add some dimension to the mix and fiill up some of the space.

SNARE - this is what I think I did the most work on, I EQ'd out some of the high end (the typical snare snap range) then raised the overall volume, this gave the snare more weight that it was missing, given the track a bit more mid range weight. I might have done some transient boost if the eq didnt fully resolve issues, as the snare sounded pretty smeared and not snapping enough.
as I progressed the mix I eased off some of the high cut that i applied, but ultimately the snare still had a cut in the highs.

'bass' I was surprised this was more likea tenor bass, did not have any lows really, the way it sounded musically sounded like it would be nice moving about a little, so i added the panning.

Fun little funky beat, love it. Seems to be your style from what I'm noticing!

Thank you for all this. Super-helpful.

 

[Iron Keys]

SNARE - this is what I think I did the most work on, I EQ'd out some of the high end (the typical snare snap range) then raised the overall volume, this gave the snare more weight that it was missing, given the track a bit more mid range weight. I might have done some transient boost if the eq didnt fully resolve issues, as the snare sounded pretty smeared and not snapping enough.
as I progressed the mix I eased off some of the high cut that i applied, but ultimately the snare still had a cut in the highs.

@Jimulacrum

The EQ I applied to your snare...

Take me back a year ago, I would have had anxiety applying that kind of cut to that frequency range of a snare! But we learn and we grow.
Please note the eq cut and the output gain.


IRON TIP: if a sound like this snare 'needs more lows', instead of boosting the lows, you can cut some of the highs and boost the gain back up (i did both, but thesmall low boost came later.)

 

[2GooD Productions]

@Jimulacrum

The EQ I applied to your snare...

View attachment 7044

Take me back a year ago, I would have had anxiety applying that kind of cut to that frequency range of a snare! But we learn and we grow.
Please note the eq cut and the output gain.


IRON TIP: if a sound like this snare 'needs more lows', instead of boosting the lows, you can cut some of the highs and boost the gain back up (i did both, but thesmall low boost came later.)

I usually low cut my snares at between 120-150hz

 

[Iron Keys]

I usually low cut my snares at between 120-150hz

I usually boost em there if lacking.
Depends on source sound!

Don't ever think I recall hearing a 2good snare and thinking that's weak (unless in jest!)

 

[2GooD Productions]

I usually boost em there if lacking.
Depends on source sound!

Don't ever think I recall hearing a 2good snare and thinking that's weak (unless in jest!)

I find they can sound a little boxy if I cut lower. Especially as I push my snares pretty hard. I find that a combination of clipping, compression and saturation makes sure they are not lacking.

 

[Iron Keys]

clipping

I usually give em a haircut too!

Have a drive function I use, not too sure on what it does, feels like an aggressive gain, just tickle it like 0.20 of a boost.

 

[Fyyn3stSymphoni]

Really cool beat, really cool music and sounds. I fuck with this.

Other than your drums needing a little rescuing - I employed a similar approach to what I did on Dusty's beat - refer to the DRUMS feedback I gave him, very similar.

Only different thing here, is I boosted the low on the kick to have some thump... so when it hit, I had it dynamically EQ the same freq in the bass.

The main problem on your mix was --- TOO MUCH INSTRUMENTATION

I had to make some arrangement decisions here... I listened to your original, and also to the trackouts in my session, and had to decide what sounds felt like were key and leading this record. Mainly that guitar sample and a few others; much of the background sounds were just taking away from the definition and brilliance of the main sounds, so I simply cut them out in certain sections. This allowed the song to have some real definition and intention.
Later in the mix, I really wanted to try and keep in as many of your elements as possible, so tried to persevere here, this is probably what took the most effort in the mix; typically I would just leave a bunch of it out.

Some of the instrumentation was clashing, both sonically (similar frequencies) and musically (timing, style, and notes - a lot of clashes).
Important point to take here, is try and make sure your elements all support and work with eachother;
if you have one high mid melody, playing fast notes, add your next melody playing slow, lower pitch sounds; that's not to say you can't have multiple sounds in similar range and similar style, you just have to really make sure they are working.
So I did a lot of muting and unmuting of elements to see what felt most important in each secion.
A lot of eq involved taking out low mids as it was getting muddy, and this helped aid seperation and clarity.
Some of the mud came from some notes playing maybe diff-key or at least dissonant notes at the same times as others.

I referenced Expensive - Ty Dolla Sign, Nikki Minaj.

Originally I felt to keep your beat as a darker one in texture, but the guitar vibes were quite hi fi, so i took it a little bit that way. One of your extra guitar melodies that comes in (i panned), I panned and dirtied it up a little to make the texture fit.

This provided a lot of challenges and made me dig in n work. Great beat.

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't realize how much work it needed. I used a few diff guitars which were at low frequencies and thought maybe that was all that needed to be fixed, but it was much more to it than that. So I'll use less instruments in future projects. Less is definitely more. And I dont know much about EQ's n all that, but I know what u meant and once I learn it, I think my tracks will be in better shape with a lot less clashes. It sounds like my track took a lot of work tho, so I appreciate the time u put into it.

The instrument selections you made has everything blending so well... It sounds really good. The trumpet u added, I felt brought another level of emotion. It added to the dramatics and definitely gave the overall beat more of a darker tone that complimented the rest of the track. This mix is super dope! & I appreciate your advice n glad that u enjoyed the beat too.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't realize how much work it needed. I used a few diff guitars which were at low frequencies and thought maybe that was all that needed to be fixed, but it was much more to it than that. So I'll use less instruments in future projects. Less is definitely more.

Layering sounds isnt a bad thing to do, but do it with purpose, for example if something is lacking some clarity in the low end, adding a slight distortion layer to add some definition and presence to a bassline. Saturation does this. When layering try to have your frequency cuts set so that the layers dont muddy each other, for example, one layer covers from 30hz to 60hz, another could cover from 60 hz to 200hz and another can be just pure high end grit, filtered to taste. Its a lot like how speaker crossovers work, dividing the frequencies between the speakers that best handle them, in this case not speakers, but synths or samplers.

 

[Fyyn3stSymphoni]

Layering sounds isnt a bad thing to do, but do it with purpose, for example if something is lacking some clarity in the low end, adding a slight distortion layer to add some definition and presence to a bassline. Saturation does this. When layering try to have your frequency cuts set so that the layers dont muddy each other, for example, one layer covers from 30hz to 60hz, another could cover from 60 hz to 200hz and another can be just pure high end grit, filtered to taste. Its a lot like how speaker crossovers work, dividing the frequencies between the speakers that best handle them, in this case not speakers, but synths or samplers.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I dont know how to distort n things like that yet... But I'll try to mess with it n see if I can learn using the advice that u and Iron Keys gave me. I'm watch some youtube vids on it too.

 

[Fyyn3stSymphoni]

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't realize how much work it needed. I used a few diff guitars which were at low frequencies and thought maybe that was all that needed to be fixed, but it was much more to it than that. So I'll use less instruments in future projects. Less is definitely more. And I dont know much about EQ's n all that, but I know what u meant and once I learn it, I think my tracks will be in better shape with a lot less clashes. It sounds like my track took a lot of work tho, so I appreciate the time u put into it.

The instrument selections you made has everything blending so well... It sounds really good. The trumpet u added, I felt brought another level of emotion. It added to the dramatics and definitely gave the overall beat more of a darker tone that complimented the rest of the track. This mix is super dope! & I appreciate your advice n glad that u enjoyed the beat too.

@Iron Keys

- I wanted to add some more to this since I didn't have a lot of time yesterday.

I read the feedback on Dusty's beat about the drums. Finding the right balance between drums n the beat is def where I have the most trouble. I'll work on that n mess with the kick & snare more on future beats. I'm work on learning EQs n apply what u said on that. I been taking notes on the all the advice being given about it. N I think it's really dope n creative how u remixed the drum. Im keep that in mind for sure.

I definitely use a lot of instrumentation on a lot of my tracks. I'm still learning how to pick n choose how to use them, if it's needed n listening for where it's not needed.

Im glad u like the track tho!! I for real appreciate u putting in the thought n time to keep the track as close to the original as possible. It doesn't sound like it was easy.

I did notice that some sounds were either not there at parts or somewhat changed. Like the choir vocal was quieted, which I like better. It lets all the other instruments blend n shine more. I def heard the change in the guitar n think it added texture to the overall sound.


I had some instruments in or near the same frequencies. This is where I was having a lot of trouble. I need to work on listening skills musically to catch where sounds r clashing n why. I've been working on this n have gotten better but still need to work on it. A trick I been using lately is listening to 2 or 3 individual tracks within a project at the same time to hear for things that r lacking n clashing. It's been helpful, but I think completely training my ears for catching those things will take time. So I appreciate things like what u doing n the general feedback of illiens on how to improve tracks.

Thanks again for the feedback on how n why u did what u did on the mix. Helpful to know the cause n change throughout it. N thanks for the effort n time u put into this.. Ive listened to the mix repeatedly & love what u did with everything!

 

[Leopard Cohen]

Indeed it still duzz!

Figure it out and send 'em across.
Always got time to mix a beat for someone with a name like Leopard Cohen!

Thanks in advance @Iron Keys

Here's the beat as submitted in most recent War Zone

Leopard Cohen - "Hat Made of Straw"

And here are the stems

The SP404 doesn't really have the concept of tracks so I bounced the sequences of individual banks of sounds, which worked out to 4 "tracks".
The final MP3 version was also run through Bandcamp's mastering service, the stems were not.

Something I noticed yesterday during the battle was that my beat sounded thin and quiet compared to others.
That's not what it sounds like when I'm listening to it in isolation, only when compared to others.

Open to any and all feedback on how to improve the final product - I'm less interested in having the song remixed, more interested in learning what I can do to improve.
Cheers.

 

[Iron Keys]

Iron Keys - "Leopard Cohen - Hat Made of Straw (mix by Iron Keys)"

Leopard Cohen - "Hat Made of Straw"

Thanks in advance @Iron Keys
Here's the beat as submitted in most recent War Zone
Open to any and all feedback on how to improve the final product - I'm less interested in having the song remixed, more interested in learning what I can do to improve.
Cheers.

Initial thoughts are that it does not sound necesaarily 'thin', I myself have this concern/reflection sometimes that my own stuff sounded thin.

My initial idea of _why_ your mix may sound thin, is lack of any real up-front and centre element. Whether that's the drums or something else. It all has this beautiful sonic wash and width, which is, imho really really nice. I think this could actually work well in the right circumstance, maybe a reflective thoughtful pensive rap over the top, where the vocal would be occupying that 'central up front space' and probably help give that fullness.

I've not taken the stems yet, this is just my reflection from your original master - out of my phone speakers it sounded fine.

How I expect I'm going to approach this - I@m going to try identify any sound(s) that feel like they could comfortably dominate that front centre. I have a feeling some of these stems will have some verb/width etc baked into them, which may limit or force my decisions. Even though I absolutely love the textures you have created or used, I think I will make the drums that upfront element - as this is typical of hip-hop records. If this is not possible, I'll try and find whichever sound is happiest taking that role and then building around that. My intent is that through creating front-back and left-right contrast, I can create a balanced 3D image with that fullness you desire using contrast whilst also maintaining the ethereal dreamlike quality of your sonicscape.

...heads off to download the stems and get to work...

So, first thing I noticed solo'ing it all up... lots of verb, verb everywhere *buzz lightyear meme*,
This reverb wash is definitely what's creating this 'thin-ness'.
So I headed to the drums, which are panned off centre and all sorts, and a lot of reverb wash, sounds real nice perhaps for some nice kind of singer songwriter vibe, but for our purpose here, those drums needed to be more centred, more forward.
I did similar as I did on a few other mixes here --- created duplicates of the drum track and isolate the kick frequencies, snare frequencies onto separate tracks.
First thing I did however, was transform my EQ into Mid-Side operation (some EQs come as standard, some DAWs have ways of achieving this), I then high pass(low cut) the side information until the kick sounded center (pro Iron Tip: cutting information from the side channel does not cut it, it just forces it to the center )
I then did typical EQing and clipping to get the kick low end punchier. (boosting like 40-80hz)
I did similar with the snare track, however as the snare was balanced quite low it was harder to isolate to i also ended impacting other perc elements.
On the drum bus at the end of mixing, I ended up applying a transient designer and slightly reducing the sustain some more to give the drums more presence.

Bass
I used a transient designer to reduce the sustain a little to remove some of the reverb effect, compressed it hard, and bass boosted. Some bassnotes had this kind of second bounce to it which went a bit mad after the boost so i clip-gained them down a few dB so it sounded smoother).

The main background melody I didnt do too much too, in fact i thinned it out a tiny bit, to give it more presence, and not get muddied with the drums or bass.
I boosted some side EQ in the 3kish range and dipped a little eq in the mid, to help create L-R separation with the drums, --- drums centred and forward, main melody is more mid distance and out to the sides.

For the additional elements I hit them with a reverb set to emphasise the distance and push them right to the back of the mix so we have, in terms of distance;
Drums (centre)
Melody (mid, wide)
Extra Sounds (far back, spread reverb)

How I addressed your issue with 'thin-ness' with my mix was through giving the drums and bass more upfront presence and centred. Then contrast that with the width and distance of the other elements. Your production/mixing choices need to keep the above in mind in your creative stages; you can still keep that ethereal sonic texture, but if you wash every element out and sit it all far back it will sound thin and distant.

If I was addressing your mix from a mastering perspective, I'd do similar achieved the following way --- Make the low end mono, maybe apply some low-mid saturation to the centre to add that weight, and likely some dynamic EQ to bring more of the transients out.

A take-away for you; reverb smears transients, and creates distance. You need to think about this when dialling in your verb settings. The more present your transient and sounds are, the closer and fuller the mix will sound. Make good use of front-back, L-R imaging to create via contrast a fuller sounding mix.

 

[hosie]

This mix is stupendously good. What a job @Iron Keys

Not only that but your comments and take-aways are just as good. Great explanations and reasoning. Hats off dude!

 

[Leopard Cohen]

Thanks @Iron Keys !
Agree with hosie - you've gone above and beyond here, much thanks for dropping knowledge on us noobs.
Will be using your mix and feedback above as reference for my next beat.

Realized that I didn't do you any favours with the stems - I should have bounced them dry rather than leaving the FX buses on.
I've been using the bus 3 and 4 settings from SPVIDZ.
I think that's the root cause of some of my mixing challenges, I need to better understand what the buses are actually doing and dial them back, focus more on the stuff you mention.

 

[Iron Keys]

Definitely the biggest thing I noticed and best advice I could give to most is;

You need to make sure your early production choices and sound selection are on point. Make sure you get your initial sounds and balances right.

If you're working with drum loops or breaks, may be worth really trying to chop and edit to get as much control over those sounds as you can.

I'm not sure what the 'learning' is for this though... I mostly think it comes with experience, time, and paying attention. Thinking but not overthinking. 'Is this sound the right sound' 'is this melody the right melody.' Then listening and reflecting on your mix the same way.

 

[Fade]

Ok I sent a beat to @Iron Keys straight from my MPC, no effects. I dumped it into Studio One since he uses that too and sent him the file to mix it. So it was all unmixed. I only realized at the end that for some reason my MPC's output was at -12db LOL, sorry about that.

Anyway, so here's straight from the MPC unmixed:



And here's @Iron Keys's mix:



I really like the mix, especially the bounce delay on the vocal snippet. What did you do to the main sample? I knew it had to be brought up big time in the mix. Let us know what else you did!

 

[Iron Keys]

Ok I sent a beat to @Iron Keys straight from my MPC, no effects. I dumped it into Studio One since he uses that too and sent him the file to mix it. So it was all unmixed. I only realized at the end that for some reason my MPC's output was at -12db LOL, sorry about that.

Anyway, so here's straight from the MPC unmixed:



And here's @Iron Keys's mix:



I really like the mix, especially the bounce delay on the vocal snippet. What did you do to the main sample? I knew it had to be brought up big time in the mix. Let us know what else you did!

So, out of all the beats I've received so far, Fade's was by far the easiest to mix.
This is down to 3 main reasons...
1: the sounds were all pretty clean and straight up; I didn't have to do any rescue work, free to process them as I want.
2: sound selection; I probably could have just turned up the main sample, slapped an EQ, Compressor and Limiter on the Master and called it a wrap. Everything just fit together.
3: It's Mister Motherfuckin' Fade

Okay, so first things first, noticed this was quite clearly a 'boom-bap' style, gritty 90s type Hip-Hop feel - so that was going to guide my approach; I'm not about to mix this like I would mix a pretty girl pop record.
That being said, one decision I made straight away (that I only just realised after pulling up the project), was to slap an SSL 9000 J channel strip on every channel (lot of Hip-Hop was probably mixed on 4000 E or G consoles, but I'm more of a 2000s guy so 9000, and would still keep the hip-hop feel.)
I didn't really do anything with the strips other than drive them a little for the console tone.

Okay, if I'm totally honest, first thing I did was say to myself "this is so well fitting, what I even meant to do to this?"; which is an interesting point, a lot of time you don't actually need to do much in a mix, (i first learnt this when I went completely legit and started with only stock and focussed on just getting levels right - if you have to do too much in a mix, recording/production process might be flawed)

I approached this mix with the idea that I want to 'bring it up to date' a *little* in and make it sound big and hard hitting, but, I did not want to turn this into a glossy pop-bap affair, I wanted to keep that grittiness --- in practise this means not making things overly bright or sparkly (example, don't high boost the snare, or keep in mind to keep it a little darker)

Clean Sounds
Clean in the sense they aren't drenched in verb, or buried in a drum mix or sample.

This gave me ultimate flexibility over processing them. And as you can see, the drum hits are very untainted - not compressed/saturated/clipped - I was free to fuck 'em up as much or as little as I want. (compared to some others where I may have to fight to claw back punch for example)

Sound Selection
As mentioned in previous sections - the sounds all just fit, I did not have to really do anything in terms of getting them to 'fit together', all EQ decisions were based on tone and whether I wanted more/less of something.

Drums
As I previously mentioned, I did'nt want to make these too hi-fi, but I initially brightened the snare a little, gave it more crack and sparkle, however, when I revisited this the other day after Fade said he was ready for me, I decided the snare felt too harsh and I ended up removing my eq boosts to it.
In the following is what my EQ moves were before my revision (the high mid was higher, I moved it down to where shown in photo, then removed it altogether. The low boost was also only added on my revision, I decided the kick needed more thump.

(drum bus)

The Sample
Fade was curious about what I did to the sample, and honestly, I don't think I did much other than turning it up...

--- my gain pots (LOL @ + 17.8dB)
The following is going to look crazy, but is mostly just some dynamic EQ ducking for the drums to cut through (probably not necessary, but I wanted to feel like I was doing something --- jokes aside, it likely did serve a small function)

Just a subtle bit of rebalancing the mids.

At the end of the mix, I added this to the 'music' bus just to bring it a bit more to life and a bit more upfront...

I really like the mix, especially the bounce delay on the vocal snippet

This was quite a half-happy-accident type occurence... I wanted to add a bit of movement to it so did some auto-panning, and also threw a delay on... and I think when I scrolled onto like a '1/4d' or one of those odd timings on the pan, it split it perfectly time wise. So I chopped the end part onto another track and made the delay come from that side. Something like that, but I 'heard it'(in my head) and then chased it.

It's Mister Motherfuckin' Fade
He told me I can only say nice things about his beat or he'll ban me jokes aside, Fade is an experienced beatmaker/kidnapper/musicmaking guy, and this is probably a big reason why; his sound selection was so on point, delivered well. That experience plays a massive part in naturally picking and playing sounds rhythms and melodies that just naturally are going to 'work' without too much conflict; I imagine it would be similar mixing a 2Good beat - the challenge here would be he uses a lot more instrumentation, so would naturally require more work to make everything 'fit'.

As for my master bus, I did not do too much, I added Tape saturation, to add to that 90s feel, and some mid-saturation just to add a bit more weight and presence. Then just typical limiting etc.

As I said, Fade's beat didn't feel like it needed too much, so a lot of it was just about 'enhancing' typically by adding 'tone' of vintage hardware emulations.

One of the most important things in mixing, is realising that (and when) you often don't really need to do anything.

 

[Iron Keys]

1: the sounds were all pretty clean and straight up; I didn't have to do any rescue work, free to process them as I want.

Clean in the sense they aren't drenched in verb, or buried in a drum mix or sample.

This gave me ultimate flexibility over processing them. And as you can see, the drum hits are very untainted - not compressed/saturated/clipped - I was free to fuck 'em up as much or as little as I want. (compared to some others where I may have to fight to claw back punch for example)

DISCLAIMER:
I actually appreciate you guys having thrown me some challenging material - really makes me have to dig into both my skillset and creativity to find ways to resolve mix issues; this is going to serve me very well; gives me new ideas of how I can implement these techniques, as well as if I ever have to reach for these techniques in the future.
Similarly, Fade with his 'easy af to mix' it poses the challenge of, what do you do, when you don't have much to do.

Ironically, the records I find hardest to mix, are my own. (Probably too much emotional and creative connection to the work).

 

[Fury Beats]

Old sage @Iron Keys Can you recommend any specific VSTs that make that help make that crisp sound at the most optimal volume. Thanks in advance. I'll also see what I can dig up and send.