confusing effects question

[Equality 7-2521]

which effect sould i play around with to achieve the effect where it sounds like the drums are a bit more in the background. lol thats the best way i can describe it. im not talking about making them lower in volume to put them in the background. i want to leave them turned up but i want to have them kina "in the shadows" of the melody. so they are not so much at the forefront of the beat. its kinda like an echo but without the echo. fuck i wish i could explain this better. ive tried echo and reverb. echoe adds echo which i dont want. and revers makes the sound longer n shit. i want the drums to hit as loud and as sharp as normal but i want it to sound like the melody was layed ontop of the drums.....instead of the drums layed ontop of the melody.


hope thats understandable

cheers

 

[SupaStar]

Fl Studio?

Use a compressor and the stereo effect plugin, mix it with the parametric eq and slowly reduce the frequencies above 20hz

 

[Equality 7-2521]

im using wavlab.


thanks heaps for the tip..........

but oi dont understand about compressors and reducing frequencies. can you elaborate?

in the meantime ill play with the stereo effects and eq.

cheers

 

[mercurywaters]

i think you just need to turn the volume down. if the drums are cutting through your melody, anything you do to soften them is going to lessen the power of the drums in the mix. just turn the melody up.

 

[SupaStar]

Equalization

Upper midrange is known as the presence range.

Low bass (20Hz-80Hz) - Has the depth, richness, power.

Upper bass (80Hz-200Hz) - The majority of rhythm is located here.

Low midrange (200Hz-500Hz) - Sounds shallow, weak, with no punch.

Middle midrange (500Hz-2.5kHz) - Sounds shallow, weak, with no punch.

Upper midrange (2.5kHz-5kHz) - Few notes but many harmonics. A lot of presence.

Lower treble (5kHz-10kHz) - Most obvious treble is here. Tape hiss.

Upper treble (10kHz-20kHz) - Subtle and delicate high frequencies. A feeling of liveness if you have the ears to hear it

You might want to print this and have it available so you can study it deeply. I have noticed that with kicks\bass sounds they are usually packed with frequencies that really dont count in giving it that oomph or roundness. These frequencies usually overcrowd the necessary ones, and in turn your kicks sound flat, and then what most of tend to do is turn up the bass\kick higher to levels that overshadow the melody and other elements of the beat. So thats why I recommend stripping the bass\kick of unnecessary frequencies, and usually whats above 20 hz will do the job, and the compressor well, that i bet you know all about

 

[eka]

compression does the job.
there is also a plugin from native instruments called L wich is a maximizer but it puts the drums a bit to the background.

 

[CooGi_dice]

krzk k. are u an enginer?

 

[SupaStar]

@ coogi_dice

thats a big complement guy, but I am not, I just grasp knowledge here and there, and the technique I mentioned above I actually learned on this site.

 

[afriquedeluxe]

stereo width?

 

[light]

adding reverb can also have the effect of pushing the sound further back in the mix.

 

[SupaStar]

Originally posted by afriquedeluxe
stereo width?

yes - there a tons of names for these type plugins - they call it stereo enhancer in fl studio, here what it does:

Fruity Stereo Enhancer contains various filters and processors to alter and enrich the stereo image of the input sound.

Parameters
Stereo Separation wheel (STEREO SEP) - This parameter lets you increase or decrease the stereo separation of the input signal. It won't have effect in mono input. The value ranges from 0% (turned maximum to right) to 200% (turned maximum to left). At 0% separation the signal becomes mono, at 100% the stereo image remains unaltered.
PRE/POST switch - Lets you choose if you want the phase offset effect applied before the other filters in that plugin (PRE) or after the other filters (POST).
Invert switch - With this filter you can invert the phase in one of the audio channels. NONE disables the effect, LEFT inverts the left audio channel, RIGHT inverts the right audio channel.
Panning wheel (PAN) - Lets you set the panning of the output. When used with small delays, the phase offset effect can make the sound seem panned to left or right. Then you can use this wheel to compensate for this effect.
Volume wheel (VOL) - Lets you set the volume of the output. In some cases the stereo separation filter may decrease on increase the volume of the output, then you can use this wheel to compensate for this effect.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[dacalion]

Mr. Mess, I've noticed you say that you dont understand compression, here it is in a nutshell...If you ran a mixing board for a live band and there were no compressors on the system, your job would be to keep all the levels of every instrument at a certain level. The light notes wouldn't be heard and the heavy notes would be distorted from being too loud. So you would try to compensate by siding the track volumes up and down to maintain that perfect level. Ofcorse you couldnt physically do it but a compressor can and that is what a compressor does but way faster than a human. A compressor stops an instrument from distorting by reacting to the physics of the note when its played...no rocket science, very simple concept.

dacalion

 

[Equality 7-2521]

thanks to everyone who replied esp krzy and dac.

i print and study.

yo dac thanks i needed that. so is compressing music something that requires no human alalysis? like can i just put my music into the compressor and it will do it all for me?

 

[Shonsteez]

Mess: what are you working with to produce yer beat?
It would help a little to then maybe suggest some other options...

From tha way it sounds tho...Compression may help, but i would try a simple EQ cut first and see where that goes??.....Just toy with different frequency cuts and see where it takes you...

If your computer based....A great way to do some of that is in a prgm called T-Racks....Its a mulltiband compressor - so you kinda kill two birds with one stone...You can do high or low end cuts and then compress at tha same time.

Steeze

 

[Equality 7-2521]

im using an mpc 2kxl to produce and Wavlab for effects. wavlab does have am ultiband compressor (4 bands) and i tried to work it but i have NO IDEA what to do.

 

[Shonsteez]

Its usually not too crazy...Each band represents a different strand of frequencies in tha spectrum that you can adjust or cut. Theres Low, Mid, and High usually, but some offer bands in between as well such as mid-low, etc...

I would try cutting tha some highs and super low ends in wavelab and see what happens...Try using a parametric EQ for this first before you fuck with compression tho since it seems confusing for you....
I dunno if its gonna give you tha effect you want...But usually if you toy with a EQ long enough you can produce tha sound you want...
For example, thats how you can get that "phone booth" sound on vocals or tha drums...you just cut specific frequencies....
At this point i dunno if im confusing you more or helping???

 

[Equality 7-2521]

na you are helping...ive been playing with the eq and that helps alot.

but i dont get how to get the frequencies in the compressor and make them phat

 

[Shonsteez]

Honestly, Compression can really help you out sometimes...but i stay away from it as much as possible...I dont think music is supposed to sound "squashed"...its supposed to sound tha way it sounds...so i use minimal compression...

In general, you can Limit, or Maximize/amplify a sound with compression...depending on tha ratio, threshold, etc that you use...I use compression sometimes when i have a bass drum that confilcts with my bass line and in return creates clipping or distortion...in this case i can compress my kick, and maybe even my bass (if needed) and then it wont peak...tha levels will just have to come up a tad instead to be around tha same decibles it was before....But no more clipping usually happens after compression if doen correctly...

Note: if you ever hear a "ducking" sound that probably means that you dont have tha knobs in tha right place for what your trying to do....i usually just feel it out...I would try reading a little jus about how compression works to help better understand what those dam knobs do...Im not tha biggest help when it comes to tha mathmatical shit ya know?

wait...

i just found some stuff i saved a long time ago...

READ THIS:

Ratio
The ratio sets the amount of compression that is being applied when the treshold level is being reached. The settings are set in ratio's like 8:1.
When there is 8db of signal going over the treshold level this will be reduced to 1db when using this setting. So 8db over the treshold level becomes 1db over the treshold level.
The ratio is very important coss it sets the power of the compressor. If you want to use the compressor as a limiter you should set the ratio to full. Preferably infinite:1 but since the Reason compressor doesn't have this setting 16:1 will do. This will prevent most incoming signals to get past the treshold level.

Treshold
This is the level at wich compression will set in. If a signal doesn't pass this level the compressor won't touch it. But if it does exceed the treshold level compression with the power of the ratio will be applied.

Attack
The attack sets the time it takes for the compressor to set in after the treshold level has been reached. If this is set to 0 the compressor will directly work when any signal is passing the treshold level. But if set higher it will gradually set in after the treshold level has been reached. This is useful if you want to maintain the initial attack of the sound you are compressing.

Release

The release sets the time it takes for the signal to get back to it's original level after it has dropped below the treshold level.
If you want to have your compressor to pump up your sound you need to set a fast release. Now pull down your treshold untill you reach the desired effect without clipping. If you haven't reached the amount of 'pump' you like but the signal is already clipping you should set your ratio higher. In this case you could also set your attack faster to get to the loud unprocessed attack earlier.
On the Reason compressor there's also a gain reduction meter on wich you can see how many db reduction you have. If this is to high you have the chance of noise getting to loud and you will definately have no dynamics anymore in your sound.


Compression is really important in a composition. It's not for nothing that all the big studio's have racks full of these devices. It's also advisable to add compression to all your devices actually. Not only will you have full control over levels but the sounds will be also better to mix together.
When you are using a compressor to even out your final mix you better not use extreme settings coss this will result in parts that should be in a low volume to rise and parts that should be loud to drop. You should search for a balance between those two. When compressing a mix there are certain to look out for. When you set your treshold level below the level of you bassdrum this will cause the bassdrum to make the rest of the mix also softer. So you can imagine what will happen then. After each kick the mix will drop resulting in a weird sounding bouncing situation wich nobody would wish for to happen with his track. So you have to make sure that the treshold level is set above the level of your bassdrum.
And this goes for all sounds actualy. If they appear regularly in your mix then the treshold level can't be set under that level or otherwise that sound will control the compressor leaving the mix to be pulled down in volume.



Here are some settings wich can make sounds nicer. Note that these sttings are a guideline and must still be tweaked to suit your sounds perfectly.

Kick:

Ratio: 105
Treshold: 85
Attack: 20
Release: 40

Snare:

Ratio: 105
Treshold: 80
Attack: 30
Release: 20

Bass:

Ratio: 103
Treshold: 40
Attack: 35
Release: 60

When you use a compressor you should try various settings because every sound is different and so it needs different compressor settings. These settings are however nice guidelines wich will help you in the right direction i hope


Steezo

 

[TrustNo1]

try a filter?

 

[Formant024]

I'd suggest a thing like Amplitube that can give your drums a bit of a raw edge through classic cabinet modeling and be gentle/subtle on the basskick's low and the hihat's mid if you dont want to make the drums the lead section when making the mixdown. Eventualy I think it's the ear that does it when balancing the tracks, I also dont think it's a must to alter EQ or change dynamics through compressors ( depending on your recording that is ). What you're actualy trying to do is arrange instruments as if it a was a band opposed to hiphop, which is more biased around dance music, where bass ( and/or bassKick ) followed by drums come prior to other, normaly, lead instruments when balancing tracks.

A note on stereo enhancers; they're a vinylcutter's worst nightmare when mastering to wax resulting by a bad pressing of your track. Keep bass mono, instruments that are supposed to be mono should mono before mixdown, i.e. an acoustic or analogue basskick is not stereo, digital synths (romplers) are stereo ( fictional audio not acoustic reproduction by any synthesis ), monosynths are not, so an analogue bassynth is better off in mono.