Double track guitars (artificial) help ?

[Iron Keys]

I've done this before successfully, but I'm looking for best/better ways to do this.

I want to double track some guitar lead I have, so the sound is pushed out to the sides leaving the centre more free.

How to do this whilst avoiding phasing in mono? I tried pitching one up, but it sounded a bit crude. I time delayed one, sounds decentish in stereo, but in mono I'm getting phasing.

Is it simply eqing either side slightly differently? If so, advice on the eq treatment would be appreciated.

 

[dacalion]

Are you actually recording the guitars live?

EDIT: Here's a trick that I've done in the past...Make sure both guitar parts are mono, if you can change the phase...flip one so that it's intentionally out of phase, then play them together and adjust them so that they sound as weak as possible or as out of phase as you can possibly get them. Then flip it back in phase and that will produce the strongest signal (or less cancellation) as possible. If it still doesn't sound right or to your liking then the only other option that I can think of is to start looking at changing octaves on one.

 

[thedreampolice]

yea, have you actually played recorded the same part twice?

 

[Iron Keys]

Nar I was just doubling up a single take.

Is played through mapped samples. If I was a bit better at guitar, I might consider playing it.

Also I'm running it through Waves Guitar Amp, not sure if it's thinning out the sound though. sounding too 'dusty'. Hmmm.

 

[thedreampolice]

ok got it, yup that won't really work.

Double tracking implies recording the same part twice

Tracking=Recording

For your situation I would NOT double it or if you really need to put a small delay on it, like 1-3ms. But honestly Fuck mono, I don't really mix that way, or even think about it much anymore. If this thing is going on the radio then maybe you need to at least listen in mono, but things are going to get lost going to mono period.

 

[Iron Keys]

Yeah man I know tracking=recording, hence why I added the 'artificial' double tracking. I imagine you're still going to run into some phase issues double tracking anyway.

I've been advised by top engineer before in duplicating the part, panning hard left/right n pitching one side up n delaying it. But the pitching up often sounds a little odd.

Yeah I check it in mono, and I'm not a fan of my stuff being 'played in mono' however it's a reality I'm sure somehow I'll have to face. I tend to aim for best stereo sound possible with least loss when in mono.


What would you suggest otherwise then? The track feels a little too one-dimensional if I keep this thing dead centre, not to mention it will cloud up space for the vocal to sit as I already got drums/bass taking up that space.
I don't really want my main guitar to be knocking out of just one side/off centre either. Hence why I thought doubletrack would give the space i need whilst giving the track a wider feel.

I don't think I'd manage to play a choppy guitar chords in, as I'm still really basic in my learning stage.

 

[thedreampolice]

ha ha, got it

Maybe using a different amp model? What are you using now in GTR? Not sure why you would change the pitch...or you could manually adjust the phase until it is where you want it? Those are a few quick ideas. Let us know what ends up working.

 

[Iron Keys]

My poor computer is struggling to keep up with all the processing, so I'ma start committing some sounds. I just bounced an amped version of the guitar and thought, hold up... could amp one and pan, amp the other different and pan. I checked the phase in mono, it seems fine... and that's amped vs original, the original sound is a bit weak in comparison though, so might amp it, balance them / bus them. N see what I get. Want to bounce my drum bus, but I'm not done editing the drum arrangement yet. Might bounce down my bass then.

Trying to rework an old track with my new skill set, hoping to see an improvement.

 

[God]

Guitars don't sound right when you duplicate the exact same track and then try to pan them L-R. No matter what you do, it usually doesn't sound "right" from a production standpoint. Moving one wave file several milliseconds forward helps, but it still sounds weird. You can run FX or change the pitch slightly to avoid phase problems, but where did that get you? Exactly.

You can try changing up the MIDI events a bit, time delaying them in your MIDI event editor, so the "playing" is "performed" a bit differently by your synth prior to capturing it in a wave event.

Honestly, think you're wasting your time if you aren't playing the guitars so you can have two separate takes.

You obviously can't do that, so I would suggest panning one guitar at a little past the 10'clock mark. It's "off" a bit to where it's not dead center and "opens" up the center for your vocals. It's also not panned too far to make it sound awkward.

Rick Rubin does this a lot when he produces the Red Hot Chili Peppers.