Question for trap producers... how to get 808s consistent across various sound systems?

[Dusty B]

How do you get your 808s sounding clean across various systems? I know, mixing. I've also read some articles on this. But I feel like I'm still struggling. So let me get specific.

Here's a beat I recently made where I used 808s on the low end instead of a bassline:


The problem: I can barely hear the 808s on my desktop speakers, they don't really come in on my wife's car either, but they sound great in my truck, on my headphones, some other systems, etc. But I know when I listen to mainstream artists/trap, I hear the 808s across all sound systems, even on my phone.

Here's how I mixed them for this track:

Sample EQ (I felt like the high end boost was already getting a little nutty):

Sample EQ (cut 20HZ + 18Khz cut):
I turned this off to test since part of me wonders if I'm cutting the lows/highs too much, but it didn't seem to change (just made things sounds a bit muddier).

Compression/Sidechain with the kick:

Attack: 0.04ms
Release: 51.99ms
Ratio: 4.1:1

Then when I was done with the basic mixing and arrangement, I sent the 808 to it's own Bass BUS when using Ozone's Mastering suite. I was noticing then that the lows weren't coming through on other systems, so I added some saturation and distortion to try and bring out the dynamics.

For anyone familiar with Softube's free saturation knob:

AND one of FL's distortion plugins (Blood Overdrive) at 19% mix level:

Then when I was monitoring everything with Tonal Balance Control, I was already often coming in above the desired low range, though I was just at the top of the range for the "bass heavy" preset. But that's why I didn't want to bump the volume anymore because I felt the mix as a whole was becoming too low.

Hip-hop reference:

Bass heavy reference:

So I eventually rolled with it because I felt like I couldn't do much else without really messing up my track by having too much bass/808.

I also use HoRNet's VHS, which is a frequency response correction plugin for mixing in headphones that helps to simulate room acoustics. Currently, I use a pair of Sennheiser HD 400 Pro, Audio-Technica M20x, and then just listen across my various home devices. I don't have any monitors, nor have I even really prioritized getting any since I don't have a treated room.

Is this a case where it's really about sound selection or am I doing something way off? Anyways, if you're still reading along, thank you! I welcome any and all advice!

 

[Kane the MOD]

Can you please share a screenshot of Tonal Balance with the fine view? Thanks @Dusty B

 

[Dusty B]

here you go @Kane the MOD thanks for taking a look. Think I'm seeing the issue with too much in the ~30hz range. I should probably use fine view instead eh

 

[Dusty B]

And ps, this is why I like being part of this community. I posted this same thing on the /trapproduction Reddit sub and got a bunch of responses like "it's music, use your ears" "too much processing" "make your own sounds in 3xOSC" "you're probably using an 808 from a drum kit you downloaded." Then I looked at some of the posts from one of the repliers and saw how he was justifying how/why his 808s clip so I appreciate actual discussions that happen here.

 

[Kane the MOD]

Try a moderate highpass filter at 50-60 Hz. Otherwise, the frequencies look pretty good.

 

[Dusty B]

Try a moderate highpass filter at 50-60 Hz. Otherwise, the frequencies look pretty good.

Thanks man. I think in this case it probably boils down to sound selection too. Probably should have just used a different 808 instead of trying to make it into something it wasn't.

 

[Memento Beats]

Hi @Dusty B

Below you can find my insights. Hopefully, it will help you somehow.

1. Your 808 is far too quiet. Balance issue in the mix.

2. Fruity Blood Overdrive is not a "distortion" plugin per se. It's more of a saturation plugin. If you want to add a spice to your 808s and make them audible on low quality speakers like laptop speakers, phone speakers, cheap headphones etc you have to add more frequencies to the 808 primarily in the mid range because that's the range that makes the 808 powerful. And as far as the distortion plugin for this kind of purpose is concerned, you should use Fruity Fast Distortion or Soft Clipper. These are distortion plugins. Fruity Blood Overdrive is good for making things loud but it doesn't a lot of distortion to anything at least from my experiences. Just be careful not overdo with it as it can give you a lot grittiness.

3. You don't need to have that high frequencies boosted so much. It won't give you much when it comes to 808s. I'm talking about this:

Personally, I mix 808s in a totally different way but that's another story. As I mentioned in point 2, focus on mid, low/mid range and boost that. Also isolate frequencies of 808 because this is also important so that you don't get the muddy mix. Basically, 808 and kick should have their own place in the mix and frequencies of other instruments should be separated so that they don't clash with each other and each of them has enough space. At least this is what I've been doing.

4.

I posted this same thing on the /trapproduction Reddit sub and got a bunch of responses like ... "too much processing"

Because it is too much processing. Really, you don't have to use that many plugins on 808s to make them powerful and audible on any kind of speakers.

5. When it comes to sound selection, maybe it has something to do with it, but I think in case of this beat it fits the rest of the instrument. It just gets lost in the background. For sure it's a matter of taste and a beat you make but in trap you really need to punch the listener with the 808. You really need to make it sound powerful and give it a lot of presence in the mix and a lot of space in the frequency range as a result. In general rap/trap/hip hop whatever you wanna call it are genres where bass is one of the most important thing and it certainly can't sound the way it sounds in this case. It's too weak.

 

[Dusty B]

Hi @Dusty B

Below you can find my insights. Hopefully, it will help you somehow.

1. Your 808 is far too quiet. Balance issue in the mix.

2. Fruity Blood Overdrive is not a "distortion" plugin per se. It's more of a saturation plugin. If you want to add a spice to your 808s and make them audible on low quality speakers like laptop speakers, phone speakers, cheap headphones etc you have to add more frequencies to the 808 primarily in the mid range because that's the range that makes the 808 powerful. And as far as the distortion plugin for this kind of purpose is concerned, you should use Fruity Fast Distortion or Soft Clipper. These are distortion plugins. Fruity Blood Overdrive is good for making things loud but it doesn't a lot of distortion to anything at least from my experiences. Just be careful not overdo with it as it can give you a lot grittiness.

3. You don't need to have that high frequencies boosted so much. It won't give you much when it comes to 808s. I'm talking about this:

View attachment 6836
Personally, I mix 808s in a totally different way but that's another story. As I mentioned in point 2, focus on mid, low/mid range and boost that. Also isolate frequencies of 808 because this is also important so that you don't get the muddy mix. Basically, 808 and kick should have their own place in the mix and frequencies of other instruments should be separated so that they don't clash with each other and each of them has enough space. At least this is what I've been doing.

4.

Because it is too much processing. Really, you don't have to use that many plugins on 808s to make them powerful and audible on any kind of speakers.

5. When it comes to sound selection, maybe it has something to do with it, but I think in case of this beat it fits the rest of the instrument. It just gets lost in the background. For sure it's a matter of taste and a beat you make but in trap you really need to punch the listener with the 808. You really need to make it sound powerful and give it a lot of presence in the mix and a lot of space in the frequency range as a result. In general rap/trap/hip hop whatever you wanna call it are genres where bass is one of the most important thing and it certainly can't sound the way it sounds in this case. It's too weak.

Thanks man, really appreciate the detailed response on this. Definitely the insight I was looking for and much appreciated as I'm still trying to learn how to work with 808s.

And yes, I agree too much processing haha.

 

[NonxG]

Is this a case where it's really about sound selection or am I doing something way off?

First thing I do and when it´s not working I use Waves Renaissance Bass. For me the best tool for this specific task. This subtle needed harmonics without sounding distorted.

Spoiler: Waves Renaissance Bass

 

[Iron Keys]

Boost here

It's low enough to sound 'low' but will usually be reproduced on shit speakers and likely the lowest they'll reprod.


Concept 2:

If you lower your subs (but keep that highlighted area uncut), you can then raise the level of the 808/bass. You're essentially rebalanced (so you can turn the level up, without the lowlows becoming too heavy on your tonal balance).

You won't lose subs...
Cause if you cut them by 5db, then raise your signal by 5db. They'll be back where they were... HOWEVER, the higher frequency will now be up 5db.

This should help you somewhat in your journey.


***be mindful when boosting that 200-500 range. Can get real boxy real quick. Use your ears. Sometimes it might not work - but that goes for everything in audio production

 

[Dusty B]

Boost here
View attachment 6838

It's low enough to sound 'low' but will usually be reproduced on shit speakers and likely the lowest they'll reprod.


Concept 2:

If you lower your subs (but keep that highlighted area uncut), you can then raise the level of the 808/bass. You're essentially rebalanced (so you can turn the level up, without the lowlows becoming too heavy on your tonal balance).

You won't lose subs...
Cause if you cut them by 5db, then raise your signal by 5db. They'll be back where they were... HOWEVER, the higher frequency will now be up 5db.

This should help you somewhat in your journey.


***be mindful when boosting that 200-500 range. Can get real boxy real quick. Use your ears. Sometimes it might not work - but that goes for everything in audio production

Thanks mate. Working on something new now that I'm going to referencing back to you and Momento's response. Appreciate the detailed recommendations and advice on this.

 

[Iron Keys]

I fuck with this...

 

[Dusty B]

I fuck with this...

View attachment 6839

Oh shit, gotta update that. Now on to Rebel Sour.

I should arrange my beat tapes based on whatever weed is in circulation.

 

[2GooD Productions]

First thing I do and when it´s not working I use Waves Renaissance Bass. For me the best tool for this specific task. This subtle needed harmonics without sounding distorted.

Spoiler: Waves Renaissance Bass

Same, I think I use r-bass on every kick and bass instrument. Side-chained compression between kick and bass is also a must. I also use soft clipping and saturation on individual channels, and busses and the master all at the same time.
R-Bass is one of those magic sauce plugins, like R-Vox.
Soft clipping and side-chaining for loudness, saturation to translate on crappy speakers by creating harmonic resonances across the frequency spectrum, and removing a lot from below -40 to -50hz. Not all, just a nice roll off to help it not sound like shit when played in a car with a good sound system.
A bass can get muddy around 300hz, its a frequency to pay attention to +/- 100hz. You can make your basses sound rounder and cleaner if you cut some of that mud.
Sometimes I will create a bass from different parts, one will be the really low sub, one the more in the chest bass, and one that handles high frequencies that handle distortion and grit and help the bass spread across the spectrum and be dominant.
Just some of my tricks with bass.
Its always best to play your mixes on as many sources as possible, just to get a good idea of where you are going right and where you are going wrong.

 

[Dusty B]

Same, I think I use r-bass on every kick and bass instrument. Side-chained compression between kick amd bass is also a must. I also use soft clipping and saturation on individual channels, and busses and the master all at the same time.
R-Bass is one of those magic sauce plugins, like R-Vox.
Soft clipping and side-chaining for loudness, saturation to translate on crappy speakers by creating harmonic resonaces across the frequency spectrum, and removing a lot from below -40 to -50hz. Not all, just a nice roll off to help it not sound like shit when played in a car with a good sound system.
A bass can get muddy around 300hz, its a frequency to pay attention to +/- 100hz. You can make your basses sound rounder and cleaner if you cut some of that mud.
Sometimes I will create a bass from different parts, one will be the really low sub, one the more in the chest bass, and one that handles high frequencies that handle distortion and grit and help the bass spread across the spectrum and be dominant.
Just some of my tricks with bass.
Its always best to play your mixes on as many sources as possible, just to get a good idea of where you are going right and where you are going wrong.

I need to check out R Bass. Have heard about this multiple times now.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I need to check out R Bass. Have heard about this multiple times now.

Id say this bundle was worth it, https://www.waves.com/bundles/renaissance-maxx

 

[K-waz]

Its all about picking the right 808 and adding a kick to go with it for more power. A lot of time you don't need any plugins on 808 for trap beats unless you using a bass then you may have to side chain but that's it

 

[Iron Keys]

Id say this bundle was worth it, https://www.waves.com/bundles/renaissance-maxx

The R Bundle went for was it 99 or like 49 and I missed it.

I think 49. Nah couldn't have been.

Already had RVox tho. And only would really want Vox and Bass.

Tempted to pick max bass but I also really cba with Waves anymore. Not with their stupid and scummy update plan

 

[2GooD Productions]

The R Bundle went for was it 99 or like 49 and I missed it.

I think 49. Nah couldn't have been.

Already had RVox tho. And only would really want Vox and Bass.

Tempted to pick max bass but I also really cba with Waves anymore. Not with their stupid and scummy update plan

Understandable.

 

[Iron Keys]

I've actually for the first time in ages been on a plugin chill... I don't really feel an urge to buy any plugins.

There's still a few I want.

Not sure if this is because I'm no longer making music, because the adverts are only hitting my emails, or because I haven't had the chance to use some of the good ones I've bought.