Re how much your beats should cost

[Iron Keys]

“we HAVE to make y’all n-ggas pay us more every time … cuz y’all be tryna offer 2500 for a beat. I gotta let it off one time.”

“I ain’t giving n-ggas no fucking $10,000, $8,000 for no fucking producer song,"

Timbaland Reveals He Used To Get Paid $500K A Beat: 'Producers Were Respected Way More'

Timbaland has opened up about what he used to get paid to produce a beat and said that number has gone down because producers no longer "value" their work.

hiphopdx.com

 

[Wesbeats]

Yea he talked about this on the producer grind interview

 

[Wesbeats]

 

[Fade]

“These producers is giving me the hardest time right now,” Shmurda complained in an Instagram video. “I’m trying to drop my project but these n-ggas is asking me for clearances and these fucking producers is asking for some crazy shit. I don’t know what rumors is going around that they think Bobby is just dropping bags.


“I ain’t giving n-ggas no fucking $10,000, $8,000 for no fucking producer song, bitch. Who the fuck told you n-ggas to fucking make songs with 10 muthafuckas on the song, bitch?! Don’t play me, bro.”

Put so eloquently! Nobody is playing you, bro. We want to get paid just like you want to get paid.

But Timbaland's right though about how sure, he made up to $500K for a beat but now that's dropped because everyone else has devalued the product. I've been saying this for years! All these guys offering beats for $1 are out of their minds. All they're doing is making it worse for the rest of us, so the minute any of us try to get some real money for our beats, like $5-10K, nobody wants that.

And when he said that those beats were tailored-made for the artist, THAT is what I'm talking about. That's the way it used to be done and should still be, but unfortunately the internet changed everything so now everyone just sells beats online instead of working with an artist in person. I know it has its advantages, of course, but the point is that beatmakers and producers used to get put on through real-life networking instead of just online. There's a huge difference, and on this topic, the difference is $1 vs. $10K.

 

[Fury Beats]

This and the barrier to entry has lowered causing more supply so naturally, demand is going to go down.

 

[Fade]

This and the barrier to entry has lowered causing more supply so naturally, demand is going to go down.

Exactly. Plus it's much easier to make beats now, whether it's with a controller and PC, tablet, phone, etc. So anyone can start making beats which means there's going to be a lot of people making them, which results in the market getting saturated so the quality goes down. Rappers are probably thinking, "Why should I pay $5K for this guy's beat when I can pay $50 for this other guy's beat?".

 

[Memento Beats]

Everything that was mentioned here is correct, but then come also other things that have impact on this situation. First of all, people in general put little to none value to someone's music if that person isn't famous. For example let's say that I'm a producer and I have the following stats on my social media:

Facebook: 127 likes
Instagram: 500 followers
YouTube: 200 subscribers.

Let's say that my level of production is very good. I can make good music, I can tailor a beat to the artist etc, but I'm just not known as a producer. Let's say that I go to some local show and meet some rapper who wants a beat from me. If I say to him that I want to charge him $500 he's gonna laugh and dismiss the offer because:

1. I'm not known, so I don't have a strong brand like Timbaland for example
2. There are people who are cheaper.

And now is the funny part. Let's say that apart from making music, you're also a mechanic and you can fix cars. You have a little garage when you repair cars. Let's say that you also have a Facebook site where you post from time to time about recent repairs you did and your Facebook site has 100 likes.

If that rapper comes to your garage and you tell him that it will cost $500 or $1000 for a certain repair in his car, he will pay it although your garage is not like well-known.

So you see the difference here? People don't value artistic skills in general and if some of them do it's some little group of people who are also musicians most of the time. It's the worst decision that one can make: to start making music for money. I have learned the hard way that it's tremendously difficult to make money off of your production skills.

It may be sad what I'm about to say, but if I had a chance to go back in time let's say 6-8 years back, I don't think I would have started producing at all. Like my main goal was to earn enough money off of music to be able to pay the rent and buy food/clothes etc. So I just wanted to earn enough to support myself. I didn't even thought I'd be famous or something. But even this is really hard, and I have some friends who have locally known bands or also produce music and it's like an endless black hole that devours their money.

 

[Fade]

@Memento Beats Well said. It's always been like that when it comes to anything artistic, but it also varies. People WILL pay you for your music if they really want it, but it depends on a few things like what kind of music, for example. From my experience, the Hip Hop world has always been cheap when it comes to supporting artists. And the artists themselves are always late to their own live shows.

As far as beats though, the main issue is there's just too many beatmakers and too many beats. What we had back in the day was someone like Timbaland that not only created a really good beat for that particular artist, but it was also you were getting the Timbaland name listed as the producer of your song. Just imagine being an up-and-coming rapper and someone like Dr. Dre produces your beat - everyone will be checking out that song instantly just based off his name alone.

 

[Iron Keys]

devalued the product. I've been saying this for years! All these guys offering beats for $1 are out of their minds. All they're doing is making it worse for the rest of us, so the minute any of us try to get some real money for our beats, like $5-10K, nobody wants that.

yep

I said it's the same as the Design industry.

You'd get some clowns who download photoshop and watch a YouTube tutorial and think that makes them a designer, when really there are so much more aspects to design you wont pick up from a youtube tutorial, at least not then, and even so probably not now.

But what you had is all these clowns/cowboys offering their 'design services' which were absolutely horrendous and dog shit, more confidence than people who actually had skill, and people would hire them 'cause their dumbass knows no different.

You get a similar thing with music, except now with music you have listeners - these kids have shown they have absolute zero concept of what is good or not. Out of tune 808s, out of key autotune, etc etc. But they'll say 'ohhh this is fire'. And they think selling beats at $5 is gonna make them millionaires.

the thing now is that trap is the popular genre, all that's involved in making trap;
- download sample packs
- loop sample over the same default trap drums/tutorial
- use whatever 'DRUMZ DAT PUNCH' plugin bullshit
- post 'lil uzi x drake x pop smoke x migos x future type beat free download' or $5 on beatstars or youtube

trap is a such a basic subgenre that it's hard to make any real variation. hi hat rolls and 808. else it's not trap.detuned melody. autotune. done.
EDM is practically the same, except in EDM they'll move on quickly from subgenre to subgenre. and actually takes a lot more sound design/difficulty.


It's like i always say, accessibility, it's beautiful everyone can access music making now, but the combination of it + social media + no quality control has = the downfall of quality. It should have the opposite impact in both terms of quality and creativity, but it's done the opposite.

I barely listen to hip-hop really anymore. The scene is a big joke.

stay ill.

 

[Fade]

@Iron Keys Well said!

I remember when CDs with loops came out and it was the cool thing to get. Just drag and drop into your DAW and everything lines up - BOOM there's your beat. Eventually it transitioned into the same sort of thing but with various plug-ins and whatnot making it very easy to make beats. For example, a plug-in that gives you chords already set, that's great and sometimes I might use that but I always try to make my own variation of it. However, most people won't bother and end up using all the default stuff so they make beats that sound the same as a lot of others.

Like you said about Trap beats, I agree. There's some really good Trap beats out there but I just find the style is too generic. Some beatmakers can really do a good job of it but not many. I just find it to be too stiff and regimented, then when you have these guys trying to sell it with all these artist names as tags, that's what just greatly devalues the product.

Then you add in the fact that the younger ones coming up don't care about the previous generations' music and the history of Rap music. They've never heard of Kane, Rakim, KRS, etc and they don't care either. It's always good to check out older music and get an appreciation for it. I'm a fan of music overall, not just Rap music, so I'll listen to all kinds of music from even before my time because I just like to hear good music. I remember seeing that final scene from 8 Mile one time on Youtube and one comment this guy was asking what that last beat was. He had no clue - Shook Ones. To me, that's one of those tracks that every Hip Hop fan should know.

 

[Iron Keys]

Then you add in the fact that the younger ones coming up don't care about the previous generations' music and the history of Rap music. They've never heard of Kane, Rakim, KRS, etc and they don't care either. It's always good to check out older music and get an appreciation for it. I'm a fan of music overall, not just Rap music, so I'll listen to all kinds of music from even before my time because I just like to hear good music. I remember seeing that final scene from 8 Mile one time on Youtube and one comment this guy was asking what that last beat was. He had no clue - Shook Ones. To me, that's one of those tracks that every Hip Hop fan should know.

This is the thing.
Previous generation(s) have respect for the previous/founders. Grandmaster Flash, Premier, Pac, Biggie, whoever. Respect is there.

Kids today, their mentality is very entitled, self absorbed, internet culture.

You gotta consider these kids today, their role models/idols have been YouTubers (who more often than not appear to genuinely have like weird social/personality disorders etc), influencers etc. People who literally do fuck all with their lives except sit there and expect the world to give them what they want.

Obviously, every era has their trends and fashions etc, but this gen is stuck on only 'what's new', and by what's new, it generally means 'what's the SAME new thing'. iPhone, Jordans, Trapbeat, mumble rap. and whatever else. They don't value anything other than what they're told by the herd to like.

I see it even with the young generation of basketball kids. it's all this fake posey shit. and they're very weak. they're like proper children most of them. back when, mfers were tough. Listen I don't care if people are gay/whatever, but majority of these YouTubey types are proper weak sissy kids who probably would be getting bullied rough elsewhere. And because the internet/society is so one thing now, most of kids are being led/looking up to these weak entitled sissies.

Simple demonstration ask some youth why they use iphone "coz itz the best" lolwut. They don't have their own mind.

 

[Fade]

@Iron Keys Exactly.

I've been saying this for a long time (maybe not on here) but the internet has failed. It's both the best and worst invention of all time. It's great as to what it can do but people use it in all the wrong ways. I remember seeing some clip years ago it was some woman just saying to the younger generation how they have all the world's information at their fingertips and yet they're not using it. That's how I feel. When I see someone comment on whatever and they say "What's X?". Well, maybe just Google it, I don't know. What a crazy idea. You can be in a far away country or in your own home on the toilet and you have a phone to find anything you want. Why isn't the next generation knowledgeable about history or whatever subject? They're too busy liking a random Tiktok video of someone doing a random dance.

 

[Iron Keys]

@Iron Keys Exactly.

I've been saying this for a long time (maybe not on here) but the internet has failed. It's both the best and worst invention of all time. It's great as to what it can do but people use it in all the wrong ways. I remember seeing some clip years ago it was some woman just saying to the younger generation how they have all the world's information at their fingertips and yet they're not using it. That's how I feel. When I see someone comment on whatever and they say "What's X?". Well, maybe just Google it, I don't know. What a crazy idea. You can be in a far away country or in your own home on the toilet and you have a phone to find anything you want. Why isn't the next generation knowledgeable about history or whatever subject? They're too busy liking a random Tiktok video of someone doing a random dance.

yeah, man. pretty much

social media also drastically lowered my perception of the opposite sex too - dog ear selfies, all those filter selfies where they post it seriously thinking that they look like that and thinking people think they do too. all this shit where they just film themselves with a filter mouthing lyrics to some utter shit song. like why? i knew a broad who's always posting videos of stuff but it's blatantly an excuse for her nails to be in the photos.
then videos of people giving meme-like opinions on things with little buzzphrases, often just really wrong.

And imagine, on top of that, the current generation despite all their 'ass-eating' antics apparently have less sex than any generation. Which ain't surprising as they're largely all weak sissies. Even that vid 2g posted most them 'producers' looked like they all sit solidly in the friendzone. simp squad.

A good example too, is your favorite... LeBron. Dude is a fucking big lad, a strong lad, but he acts so precious and female-like. Drama, flopping etc. Even rappers now, they're all wirey skinny, look like crackheads, can barely talk.

Basically sound look and act like children who were brought up in an era where their parents aren't allowed to tell them off 'cause it might hurt their feelings.

 

[Fade]

@Iron Keys Good point about the women and the selfie filters today lol. It's annoying to see that and we never get to see what they actually look like because they're so used to hiding behind filters.

 

[OGBama]

Also @Iron Keys these dudes out here on social media wilding in the exaggerated looks department as hard as the women are. Dudes w/beards and hair dyed w/what looks like shoe polish. Gym bro douchebags of all races OD-ing on ‘roids and shit thinking everyday is a Strongman competition.

 

[konceptG]

@Iron Keys @Fade @Memento Beats

All of y'all are on point. And as someone that shut down a small graphic design studio for that EXACT reason, I really feel what you said @Iron Keys.

Back around 96-97, I had a cat that was trying to manage me as a producer but I didn't have my own equipment at the time. I was making beats in the MI shop I worked at with the equipment we had on display, mostly as a way to show the stuff off better so I could make sales, but also to kinda hone the craft. At that time he told me "Relativity is paying $3000 per beat, I can get you on that" and as an unknown producer at that time it would have been the shit. Fast forward to '98, and one of my customers (who, himself was an early member of a well known Detroit Techno group) told me that he was getting $500 a beat from local cats for their demos. He had a Tascam 688 8-track portastudio he was making beats with at the time. I sold him a Roland VS880 to replace it and he was basically like "yeah, now it's digital so I can charge more".

Back then you could really make a lil living making beats, whether through a label or just as a side hustle for local cats.

The introduction of bootlegged Fruity Loops/FL Studio changed alladat. Once folks found out Soulja Boy made "Crank Dat" with Fruity Loops, it opened the floodgate to dudes copying what he did, setting up FL on the family computer and making some of the most horrendous beats imaginable. Naturally, some cats scored placements and made a name like that. In response, dudes got desperate to get placements and starting selling beats for K-Mart Blue Light Special prices. Exclusives going for $20 for 5 joints or less meant rappers could get away with spending next to nothing on their songs and ended up with the mindset that they didn't have to spend either.

I got back in the game when it was at its worst. Rappers expecting freebies left and right, beats for $5, etc. From the looks of it, that mindset ain't going away anytime soon either.

You gotta place value in your craft. The work you put into making music, regardless of how it's done, is worth something.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Economics 101: supply and demand.
When demand oustrips supply then prices rise, when supply outstrips demand prices fall

 

[Fade]

The introduction of bootlegged Fruity Loops/FL Studio changed alladat. Once folks found out Soulja Boy made "Crank Dat" with Fruity Loops, it opened the floodgate to dudes copying what he did, setting up FL on the family computer and making some of the most horrendous beats imaginable.

Very good point. We all know that times change and it won't be like it used to be but because of the technology today it's just making everything super easy so people don't put the effort like they did. There's lots of guys out there saying they can make a beat in under a minute or how they made 30 beats today LOL, all of that is ridiculous. They're not putting value into the music because it's just too easy to throw something together.

It's like DJing back in the day and how you HAD to get turntables if you wanted to be really good, especially if you wanted to scratch and battle. However, you HAD to get 1200s, period. No belt drive bullshit. So that automatically eliminated a lot of people that couldn't afford them, so if those people REALLY wanted to scratch they would find a way to do it with whatever they had. Maybe they'd even work their ass off to save for some 1200s. The point is the will was there.

 

[konceptG]

Very good point. We all know that times change and it won't be like it used to be but because of the technology today it's just making everything super easy so people don't put the effort like they did. There's lots of guys out there saying they can make a beat in under a minute or how they made 30 beats today LOL, all of that is ridiculous. They're not putting value into the music because it's just too easy to throw something together.

It's like DJing back in the day and how you HAD to get turntables if you wanted to be really good, especially if you wanted to scratch and battle. However, you HAD to get 1200s, period. No belt drive bullshit. So that automatically eliminated a lot of people that couldn't afford them, so if those people REALLY wanted to scratch they would find a way to do it with whatever they had. Maybe they'd even work their ass off to save for some 1200s. The point is the will was there.

Yup, same for making beats: You had to have a sampler of some sort. Ideally an MPC 60/mkII/3000, SP12/1200, or s950, but if you had SOMETHING and could freak it, then it would work out as well. You had to invest in your craft and take is seriously. Dudes used to get a hold of a piece of equipment and hole up in the crib for a month or so just learning how to use the thing. Nowadays they sit on Youtube looking at videos like "How to make a beat with FL Studio", never so much as even scratching the surface of what the software can do.

 

[Kane the MOD]

Economics 101: supply and demand.
When demand oustrips supply then prices rise, when supply outstrips demand prices fall

I feel like there are way more decent producers than decent rappers so low prices for beats are a logic thing. However, I think this conversation misses one big point: you only talk about the upfront payments. I think a low upfront payment can make sense for artist and producers if the producer gets his credit (exposure) and his equity share in the song. This way if the song makes no money the artist doesn't loose too much of his money. If the song blows up both artist and producer get their share.

Of course if you work with a big artist or you are a big producer this is a whole different conversation.