Reality Check: WE ARENT THAT GOOD.

[Cold Truth]

uh........ i dont really know how to drop this topic without pissing people off, so let me start by saying that I AM NOT COMING AT ANYBODY DIRECTLY. if you guys want to be pissed off, be my guest, but that isnt my intention, but it might piss you off. i am hoping for a positive outcome. does that make sense?

after listening to quite a few albums of all genres lately, i have something to say about the quality of work at Illmuzik-

we just arent that good.

we are good, we have a lot of knowledge, and we have a wealth of talent. but that is where it ends. we are just not on par with the guys i have listened to the last week or so (cee-lo's new album, every common/talib kweli/mos def album, the roots, lil john, david banner, kane west, timbaland, gangstar, twista, cassidy, nelly, gostafce, ben harper, dave matthews, fela kuti, mobb deep, sarah mclaughlin, nirvana, mars ill, thrice, incubus, jay dee, ayatollah....... i listened to everything i can get my hands on..... even some stuff i cant stand) and........... i dont know.

i guess i have been inspired to step it up a few notches, like, i just dont feel i am that good.... and in listening to the beat this comp... there were some that i was actually confusing for the UGHH instrumentals i wasnt impressed by everything, but it was a decent crop (overall we have had better comps)...

all i am saying, is, we arent there.... not yet......... we are on our way, but i think we all need to check ourselves and the reality, (or "Cold, Hard, Truth" as i would put it were it not for my name,) is that we got a lil ways to go. we all need to realize what it takes to make it in this industry, much less the internet....

i was at the house of a friend who makes beats and she was showing off her friend and his tracks and rhymes.... they were completely convinced they were dope, that he was tight, and he was spittin like "lyrical miracle spiritual spherical, im the hypothetical medical ritual" and she was like "see, this guy is so advanced... he is so dope..... people just cant hang with him....." ....

and i didnt have the heart to tell her otherwise. i just stayed quite and nodded.... "its different" and tried to give subtle suggestions to get better.... " but dude was boring..... and both his beats and er beats were very plain, and both had all these rules, like.. "the simple, basic beats are the best", as opposed to good beats being good beats, no matter how simple or complex.

and then, once again, i got offended, because they only liked one track out of the 20 i showed them..... so i figured, maybe its just me. maybe i need to step it up. which, obviously, i already feel that i will never be good enough- there will always be something to build on and improve.... so big deal, they didnt like my cd, whoop-de-freakin-doo.... their opinion doesnt exactly mean much anyways.... if ?uestlove siad that, i would really reconsider my asopirations.. .see the difference? a quality artist has more weight in these matters.

and also the battle ith soundclick, i'm thinkin, fof course we will/would slaughter them.... .because we ARE a solid group of artists. but those guys arent exactly competition, as a whole (gangsta kidz????)... why dont we go against a better crew of artists? why take shots at those who arent even close to us, just to prove it to ourselves? if we are going to battle another site... let it be okayplayer! lets battle them! lets go against someone who has made some noise- or dont go at anyone at all.

at first i was down but now i am not, and i will publicly say that i myself will go against any of you who participate. you make a soundclick diss track, i make one aimed at illmuzik and specific memebers that post, even stresswon, who i got love for.

the reason being? i wanted to battle dude the other night, because even though my freestyle skills arent that great, they were better than his.... and that would have proved absolutely nothing. we would be an embarassment to Hip Hop, Illmuzik, and ourselves if we did this. if they call us out, then that would be a little different story. i would be all for smashing the whole site with a vengeance. i would be down for anyone hwo came at us as a site or individual members. but this.. picking on some other site just cause they arent as good as us (trust me, i cant stand a lot of them, the mentality, etc....i feel you all on that..)... come on, we are better than that.

Stress, i am now speaking to you specifically- (i know i said i wasnt coming at anyone- but i am going to address you at this point)-

you are better than that. go after someone with skills.... you ever get into it with someone lyrically, i will supply tracks for it! but not for this.... you are trying to get a demo done for interscope! focus you energy on that! or, go at someone known.... someone that has something worth some points.... this ownt get you, or us, anywhere...

so, be forwarned- any of you do this (like you are scared anyways...), i will take up for soundclick, or any other weak, wack artists Illmuzik heads go after for no reason other than they arent any good.

this being said, i did this post out of love, and what i believe to be in the best interest of our own site, and of us at artists.... so let the responses flow.....

 

[N.U.G.]

interestinng post Cold.

I kinda feel what your saying that a lot of peeps (myslef included) need to improve our skills but there are also some cats on here that are killing it. I haven't had a chance to listen to a whole lot of peoples beats (although I plan to) but I can specifically say I've heard some really dope stuff from "Holmzini", "Producer Gyal", "Copenhagen", "Mr Messenger" plus stuff I heard from you Cold was dope too. I'm sure there are many more peeps who are dope like that but I just haven't had a chance to hear their stuff yet.

I will say that the recent Beat This comp was not up to the standard I was expecting but I still appluad all those that gave it go.

I think your post is a great challenge for all of us to step up. I'd suggest anyone serious about improving their skills identify their weaknesses, devolop a plan to improve and then follow through and make it happen.

 

[Cold Truth]

uh.....

maybe i should delete the top part.

the purpose was, yeah, we are good, but we arent at that elite level, and so why are we going to go and attack some other artists that are less than what we are? if we are going after someone, we should go after those that are better than we are, that are making noise where it counts, not some lame ass soundclick kids that arent going anywhere anyways. there should be a purpose in furthering ourselves as artists and as a site in doing anything like that battle... does that make better sense?

 

[N.U.G.]

oh ok, I didn't realise that was your point. Yeah, I don't really see much use in the Illmuzk vs Soundclick thing. As far as me, the only battle I care about is myself vs myself.

I feel what your saying about stepping our game up before even worrying about anyone else.

What was the purpose of that Illmuzik vs Soundclick thing anyway?

 

[Cold Truth]

uhhhh its still about us "stepping up our game"

i only spoke about ME needing to step up MY game- it was just a part of me getting from point a to point b-my whole thing is, if we are going after anyone it should be for advancement purposes, not to show ourselves how good we are........ when we didnt take on anyone of any importance.

 

[Tim D]

Cold I respect you voicing your opinion on this post, even if we are bad now we can only get better, but were young so i dont expect to be on any timbaland level yet lol. I was also for the Soundclick idea at first, Stress's idea was good, about goin after the Soundclick rappers who thought they were hot shit, but it is really not needed, and we should focus our time on better shit than those kids. Just my 2 cents

 

[o-a-ksavage]

Yeah, i realize 100% that i'm not near where i want to be or plan to be. I know i could improve tremendously and on am not on a high level. I don't think that means anything to battle another site. Maybe we'll be better but so what. If they have someone better who cares. It's already known that there's someone out there better than all of us, so it proves nothing if we win or lose. But i guess if you would have fun and really want to do it, than i say go ahead. But it proves nothing about anyones ability.

 

[blaqcyde]

yea i feel yall...im juz a year into the game and im gettin better wit every beat i make, but i gots a long way to go. but this site is helpin me improve my skillz plus this months comp was a good challenge cuz u could only use the soundkit they gave u. even though i didn't place in the comp im still proud of my beat...

 

[StressWon]

Originally posted by Cold Truth


Stress, i am now speaking to you specifically- (i know i said i wasnt coming at anyone- but i am going to address you at this point)-

you are better than that. go after someone with skills.... you ever get into it with someone lyrically, i will supply tracks for it! but not for this.... you are trying to get a demo done for interscope! focus you energy on that! or, go at someone known.... someone that has something worth some points.... this ownt get you, or us, anywhere.......

Okay, i feel what ya sayin! Even though I now need glasses after reading that long ass thread!!! LOL,,,werd, ya gave me an idea! BTW its for Def Jux, not Interscope, My man werks for Interscope that knows El-P

 

[mercurywaters]

damnnit truth! where are some songs man. i know you're fighting your own personal battles in improving, but fuck all that. i want to hear some songs. as far as the skill level around here, listen to hi-tek's, 88keys', 9th wonder, or whoever else. there are quite a few cats here that could hang big time. if you heard kweli rhyming on one of afriques beats on a major label project, you might change your tune. its hard to compare sometimes when you just hear it over the net and then compare it to a fully mastered track. there is alot of talent here that is ready for world exposure. i'm not tooting my own horn, but i know i can hang with the major label cats. i know where my place is in the music world and the "industry". i'll probably never go platinum or gold. never be on a major label. never get constant spin on mtv. but i've gotten myself to the point of where i mastered MY craft. i can't speak for anyone elses progress, but damn, there are some nice cats on here. i've worked with alot of them. i know the quality of work. of course there are hundreds of people on illmuzik so the ratio of ready to not ready is pretty low. but there's alot of cats ready. you're one of them truth. at least beatwise. i'm still waiting to hear some songs.

 

[StressWon]

I gotta side wit Merc on this....as far as cats not tha good....I know that mad cats in here can mos def hang wit the big dawgs man! Mainstream wise look at Lil' Jon,,,,,dudes tracks sound like they were made on Ejay. C'mon man, I aint even gonna go on,,,,,as beat makers I know that cats in here got game, and just need to shine, but ya cant do that unless ya break thru tha clouds ya dig?


Lyrically, Merc is ahead of his time. And ya tracks are nice kid! I feel the same,,,,I think I'm pretty dam good at what I do, and i will never be on no major label. I'de be lucky enuff to be on MTV2! But we ARE that good. we are our own worst enemies when it comes to this shit.



,,,,,and Truth,,,like it or not,,,,Soundclick is gonna feel the wrath! if I was to get at someone big, they would just say i was doin it for publicity and be shrugged off,,,a la Big Stuy

 

[J-malice]

shiiiiit. give me the shit that they got, and i bet you i could come harder than alot. not all, but shiiit. im holdinit down with what i got. no concietedness intended, just statin that I think im not that bad compared to some of these ppl.

THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR INPROVMENT THO!!!!!!

im just takin it step by step, im workin on gettin shit to sound on cd how it sounds in my head. and dat shits been workin for me latly. on the real tho. i swear on everything that if i could chill with some big producers like timabaland, kayne west, neptunes, dre for like a week or two. NOBODY would be able to stop me. cuz i still dont know what im doin, but whatever i am doin, im doin it good.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

i feel what mercury waters said about hearing somone like Afriques (or anyone else from illmuzik who is really dope) beats laced by a dope MC on a major lable. that can mos def change the perspective. there are a small bunch of poeple on this site that can hang with the big dogs. know that. and ofcourse know that there are many who cant.

Truth: i noticed you mentioned we need to get more into the actual industry and less the internet. dont you thikn this is a great place to come and learn about how to make it in the industry? ive learned almost everything i know form this site. and im aware of the things that i DONT know. im also aware that information on the areas with which im ignorant is waiting for me in the illmzik forums when i wish to retrieve it. im not saying that you can make it solely by using the internet but im just abit confused with what you were saying. r u saying that peeps should be spending less time here and more time in thestreets/at shows hustling their shit? if so, concider that that isnt relevant to me at this currant point in time. im yet to have a full demo which im ready to hand out. so at the moment i thikn the best thing for me is to come to a place like this and build my knowledge and then go and apply that knowledge untill i have a produce to show for it. one thing i think that compliment your suggestion is the advice "God" gives to donate time to a studio. i thikn thats a good practicle advice and i wonder how many have taken it. i have gotten contact numbers for a local studio and will be donating time as soon as i obtain my drivers liscence. also concider that illmuzik IS doing things to help its producers make it in the industry. Think Ill Muzik Compilations Vol. 1. that shit will be getting world wide exposure. so hopefully something will eventuate from it.

i agree The Beat this comp was a lower standard than usual (including my beat) but i think thats because contestants were limited to the kit. simple as that.

about the soundclick thing, i feel what your saying. on a whole though im not feeling the whole "battle another site to get to where we want to go" mentality. less time battling, more time building. i think NUG said it best when he mentioned battling yourself. setting your personal stardards and being dedicated to not dropping any lower is fucking important. if you dont do that there is a good chance youll spend blocks of your time going backwards cos your getting lazy. so for me, its raising my own bar thats important at the moment. and that why i like Beat This!. to me, Beat This is not a battle. its a monthly review of Illmuzik producers which promotes raising the bar through friendly competition.

so umm after all that i cant think of anything except.......

.......less talk more action.

 

[joeburnem]

Hey when you listen to all the (Kanye Wests and Roots, etc.) you are listening to the TOP 2 %! "The cream of the crop! That's why their music is getting played. They also have access to top studios, engineers & equiptment. They also have TIME. Seeing it's there job and primary function to churn out hit after hit. I understand where you're coming from. I just happen to look at it from another angle. I think we are all "works in progress". Yeah... we'll get there one day. Believe lil homie.

 

[MIKELABZ]

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.

 

[Formant024]

^^^^^Word, how many of us are mastering their beats to industrial standards ? It makes anything come out good, so it's relative, dont be deceived.

Artists.... we're never fully satisfied, it's triggered for progression and perfection.

Now for the outcome I dont know, nobody can ever tell where they will end up, it's either for the love of it, as a hobby or as a career to most hopefully, pick yours. In any case have fun as long you're sticking with it or there's no point in starting this. Skills/succes by others can be envied or can demotivate you. Skills though are means to get respect achieved by battles, that also includes online battles, but can only be of any value if you battle against a skilled opponent. In that soundclick might be a weaker side but there's skill too. Face it, there mutual appeal for battle, just pick the right victims, worthy of a battle and be a sport. A big fat reality check goes to those typing freestyles in chatrooms and making bluff on the net to impress somebody else without skills. I dont think the rest is that bad for an option. It's about having a spine and a focus, hiphop is battle as long as I know it.

 

[N.U.G.]

I think the whole idea of a beat battle is hillarious. I'd be like "fucc you homie, my hi-hats are waaaay doper than yours."

 

[boneyboys]

Truth - Very interesting post, and one which I agree with a lot of but I'm not sure about the attitude behind it. I'm everyone on here is interested in getting better at what they do and we'd all love it if we were putting out stuff to a commercial standard all the time but for me at least this isn't really what music's about. Remember hip-hop started as some fun at parties, stuff for people to (for want of a better word) dance to. Although progress is definitely part of it I think its too easy to get clouded by the urge to become great rather than just good and lose all of the fun you get from it. How about a little less of this talk of battling and a bit more talk of getting together for collective Illmuzik tracks, sharing stupid samples and pics and stuff, cause for me that's where the real fun of music comes, in the collectiveness.

Everyone should keep doing what they're doing cause I firmly believe that with continuing work we could see the next generation underground stars coming up from here, there is talent around, just don't forget to have fun whilst you're all doing it. This might have sounded like I was having a bit of a go at ya Truth, saying you weren't fun/having fun but if so that's unintended, I'm just saying that whilst improving you all should remember what you get out of making music

 

[afriquedeluxe]

i really enjoy what am doing, its more than an addiction and its fun. even when i 1st started and i was makin shity beats (which to me sounded real nice) i enjoyed it, and when compared to the industry standard they were no way near lol. but my aim then and still is to get to that level or even better it, but on the way of doin dat we gota make sure we having fun jus like boneyboys said. back wen i just got in2 this people said i was makin funny shity horror beats, i just laughed, i mean i knew i wasnt up to the radio standard but i knew id progress. reality checks are always good, but we gota be confident in ourselves. the other point about industry heads having all the real mastering gear shud be no excuse... am off to skool, ill b back to write more

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

Response

OK, it's time for an angelic response.
truth, i must disagree with you.

1. first of all - by today's standards, we got some of the most talented producers. there are guys here, whose music is unbelievably good. personally, your music is superb, but it is being judged by the wrong people. i know that my music isn't felt by the masses, but do i seem to care? HELL NO. i know that a certain minority likes my work, and that's enough for me.
each one got his own individual and unique style. what you don't like, might be another one's cake.
i repeat once again - i am well aware of the fact that most of the music that i listen to, is considered being crappy by the vast majority. what people don't understand is necessarily lousy by their poor uneducated judgment.
as i've said, when you ask for an opinion or an advice, try to inquire people who have been not only listening but also collecting and studying music for at least a while.

2. second of all - the commercial tracks you hear, have been mastered and slaughtered by 10000 sound engineers. if you listen to older tracks by def jux's artists \ atoms family \ lots of other artists, you will notice that the sound is unpolished and mostly not mastered. YET - THE MUSIC IS TOP NOTCH. heck, hip hop is all about grim and rawness.

3. don't be harsh on yourself and keep doing your thing. ignore others because the only opinion that counts is your own.

GOOD LUCK FROM HEAVEN,
Wings Of An Angel