Windows Vista music production software troubleshooting/info

Fade

The Beat Strangler
Administrator
illest o.g.
Overview
I figured we could have this thread to help each other when it comes to Windows Vista and music production software.

This is just an example:
If you're running Vista and you're having a driver issue with a program like Reason, FL Studio, etc then post in here. This way we can keep track of all the problems that we're experiencing while trying to run various music production software on Vista.

Conclusion
I know Vista just came out today so I don't expect anyone to post anything for a while, but this thread is here if needed. Don't post stuff like "Fade this is a good thread thanks" or "Can I post about Cubase?". For stuff like that, please send me a PM. I want to basically just see posts from people that are having problems with Vista and hopefully their solutions.

Warning!
Please don't turn this into a Vista debate thread! This thread is only for music production software issues you're having with Vista. All posts that don't apply will be deleted, I want to keep this thread clean so that it will be easy to search and find help.

Thanks.
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
Lets kick off with a good overview and a few notes towards vista and audio...

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Disabling of Functionality

Vista's content protection mechanism only allows protected content to be sent over interfaces that also have content-protection facilities built in. Currently the most common high-end audio output interface is S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format). Most newer audio cards, for example, feature TOSlink digital optical output for high-quality sound reproduction, and even the latest crop of motherboards with integrated audio provide at least coax (and often optical) digital output. Since S/PDIF doesn't provide any content protection, Vista requires that it be disabled when playing protected content [Note E]. In other words if you've sunk a pile of money into a high-end audio setup fed from an S/PDIF digital output, you won't be able to use it with protected content.

Decreased Playback Quality

Alongside the all-or-nothing approach of disabling output, Vista requires that any interface that provides high-quality output degrade the signal quality that passes through it if premium content is present. This is done through a “constrictor” that downgrades the signal to a much lower-quality one, then up- scales it again back to the original spec, but with a significant loss in quality. So if you're using an expensive new LCD display fed from a high- quality DVI signal on your video card and there's protected content present, the picture you're going to see will be, as the spec puts it, “slightly fuzzy”, a bit like a 10-year-old CRT monitor that you picked up for $2 at a yard sale (see the Quotes for real-world examples of this). In fact the specification specifically still allows for old VGA analog outputs, but even that's only because disallowing them would upset too many existing owners of analog monitors. In the future even analog VGA output will probably have to be disabled. The only thing that seems to be explicitly allowed is the extremely low-quality TV-out, provided that Macrovision is applied to it.

The same deliberate degrading of playback quality applies to audio, with the audio being downgraded to sound (from the spec) “fuzzy with less detail” [Note G].
 

KurtisRich

Pussy Monster
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 13
I just bought a new Dell that comes with Vista. I have my EMU 0404 interface and an M-Audio Firewire 410... I can't get anything to work with Vista because it's still new and most of these hardwares and softwares companies are still working on new drivers that are compatible with the Vista. It does suck though. I bought a new pc hoping that everything would be up and running when I got it, now I gotta wait until there are new drivers for my shit. I haven't installed any softwares on it yet though but I'm sure that it will work fine.... Hopefully they'll get the new drivers up soon.

Also, I have a macbook pro that's the same spec as my new pc with vista... everything on my mac feels 10x faster and smoother than windows.
 

Big Tone

You done fucked up
ill o.g.
theres noe feature that lets you operate xp versions in vista. like when windows xp first came out. there was a spot in the system tools that let you convert it
 

KurtisRich

Pussy Monster
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 13
Here's a helpful hint that I came across. First off I have an M-Audio firewire 410 that i just recently bought. I went to the website to see if there are any drivers for the Vista, but, came to find out there weren't any and I downloaded the Windows XP drivers for it. So as I was running the set up, it said suttin like "Not compatible with the opperating system" so i kept trying and trying and it didnt work. It took me a few days to figure this out and I got it to work.

How? All i did was Right Click on the application (.exe file), go to Properties, Click on the Compatibility Tab. There should a few options. I checked off "Run this program in compatibility mode for:" and there should be a pull down tab that lists all the operating system (windows 95, Windows 2000, XP etc.) I chosed Windows XP and my shit is running smooth like a baby's ass. This should also work for any kinds of applications, games, music softwares, etc. Give it a try if your Windows VISTA is pissing you the fuck off like it did to me. But now, I guess I'm starting to appreciate it now.

Before you install any software make sure you do this otherwise, your setup might not work. I hope this helped some of yall.
 

BrothaMann

Member
ill o.g.
i just bought a new computer with vista. i use a tascam US-122 soundcard. the only program that i can get sound from is reason, it works like a champ. but my other programs like soundforge, ableton live 5, and even the windows media player will not produce any sound. at least reason works which makes me about 30% happy, the other 70% is pure frustration.
 
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
"V" For Vista": NEW Microsoft OS - A big deal for pro audio

"V" For Vista"

By Gary Garritan | February 2007

The wraps are finally coming off Vista. While there’s been a lot of buzz about the look, the graphics, and the seemingly never-ending product introduction delays, a quiet audio revolution has been happening behind the scenes in Redmond. And as we get closer to the day when Vista actually hits the shelves, it’s becoming transparently clear — like the “Aero” look itself — that Vista, the next-generation Windows operating system, takes pro audio very seriously.

Windows is installed in about 95% of all client computers, and it’s been awhile since Microsoft introduced a new operating system. Part of that is because, frankly, Windows XP really got it right. It seemed light years ahead of Windows 98, and thanks to widespread support and excellent stability, there was no great clamor to change it. Yet Windows Vista represents the most important element in Microsoft’s upcoming product roster; it’s expected to sell upwards of 100 million copies in 2007. With those kinds of expectations, Vista couldn’t just be an incremental upgrade — it had to set phasers on stun, and wow the target audience. Luckily for us, Microsoft considers pro audio a vital part of that target audience.

OVERHAULING THE WINDOWS AUDIO INFRASTRUCTURE


The audio in earlier versions of Windows has never quite worked the way pro audio software developers wanted, and was getting unwieldy and difficult to modify. So, Microsoft rebuilt Vista’s underlying audio architecture to provide greater performance, stability, and audio fidelity; the company is even hopeful Vista will spark a new round of evolution in music technology.

Microsoft has now made it easier for developers to write programs by simplifying the way software interfaces with the underlying hardware. There’s a lot more going on under the hood, like revised driver structures, enhanced API sets that provide application isolation (one badly behaving audio app can’t bring down the system), incorporation of reusable components to reduce the need for custom components, and optimization to prevent memory fragmentation and manage large memory requests.

There’s also an emphasis on improved audio quality. In rewriting the audio stack, an entire new audio subsystem evolved called User Mode Audio (UMA), with developers using a new set of interfaces known as WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API). Windows Vista uses 32-bit floating point calculations by default in the core of the audio system to provide higher-quality digital signal processing, bit-for-bit sample level accuracy, and up to 144dB of dynamic range. And the new audio WaveRT (Wave Real Time) architecture allows for much lower hardware latency in audio apps. Developers will certainly have a much better underlying audio system as a foundation.

But will your current apps work? Most likely. Although completely overhauled, Microsoft wanted to make sure there was backward compatibility in Windows Vista. Current music apps and drivers should work fine, except some may not when you venture into 64-bit systems — we’ll cover more on this later.

Like the audio infrastructure, the MIDI engine has also been rebuilt to minimize system wide impact, but you won’t see any new MIDI features just yet. Nonetheless the underlying work has primed the platform for changes, and presumably, Windows Vista follow-up releases will take advantage of this.

GLITCH RESISTANCE


The entire OS has a priority structure, where a new operating system feature (Multimedia Class Scheduler Service) can prioritize audio apps over other processes to provide glitch-resilient operation. Under current versions of Windows, a wi-fi alert, instant message, antivirus program or some other process could steal processing power from the application and cause an audio glitch; so it was necessary to disable various programs to make sure they did not interrupt. But despite best efforts to disable potential threats, Windows is a busy system and there are processes always going on — networking, drive scanning, caching, etc. Sometimes priority gets confused and if every process has the same priority there can be a bottleneck or, even worse, a crash.

Microsoft endeavored to make the audio in Windows Vista as glitch-resilient as possible by allowing apps to prioritize audio over all other application processes using MMCSS. Once applications start to utilize this new feature, you will be able to run your audio in Windows Vista without having to go in and disable various processes.

At the Microsoft Audio Summit held last year, Arif Gursel (Program Manager on the Microsoft WAVE team) ran a massive stress test demonstration — the equivalent of running dozens of apps simultaneously to try to break the system. The audio processing and playback was prioritized over other apps, video, mouse movements, screen redraws, etc. and no matter how hard he tried to stress the system, the audio kept playing seamlessly. I was pretty impressed.

PER APP VOLUME CONTROL


In the previous versions of Windows, volume was universal across all apps so some sounds might blast you while others were barely audible. Not only that, but each new app might change the settings on the system and alter the sound. This got so confusing that some audio devices shipped with their own control panels, and disabled the system device controls.

With Vista, the Per App Volume control feature provides separate volume slider controls for each application that plays audio, thus giving the option to differentiate and control what’s piped through the audio engine (Figure 1). The user interface is easy for the average person to understand; the apps as well as the Window System sounds are on their own volume slider.

In many cases Per App Volume Control may not apply to DAWs, which will utilize exclusive mode (for performance) and are exempt from the Volume Control. Otherwise, it’s a great feature for the customer trying to play multiple apps with sound.

OTHER VISTA FEATURES


One of the most talked-about features in Microsoft Windows Vista is a new glass-like interface called Aero Glass: The various windows, icons, toolbars, and other elements sport a translucent 3D design that you can see through, with animations, glassy reflections, drop shadows, scaling and vector-based graphics (the downside: you’ll need a powerful graphics card). This also means other possibilities, like making semi-transparent virtual instrument GUIs so you can see the controls, yet also see what’s happening on the tracks related to the instrument.

Microsoft has made some real leaps forward in navigating your PC with a 3D “rolodex”-style flipbook of your active windows (Figure 2). Users will appreciate the way the new search feature works, especially the way it navigates (Figure 3). But while the user interface seems more intuitive on the whole, it may take a little getting used to; if you want to go with what you already know, it’s possible to go back to the classic (2000/XP) look.

There’s also a new Windows Media Player with a cleaner, more modern user interface. It allows playlists to span multiple devices, and offers greater sync compatibility with various devices. I was able to auto-sync music, videos, and photos with no problem (currently there are over 130 devices on Microsoft’s PlaysForSure compatibility list). Also, Speech Recognition is built into Windows Vista so you may want to try to control your sequencer transport with your voice.

Clicking on the Start menu no longer opens a long list of programs, as the Vista Start Menu integrates a desktop search feature (Quick Search) that helps you find and launch just about anything on your PC. Type in a word, name, or phrase, and Quick Search can find the right file. The new Start Menu also makes it very easy to navigate installed applications on your PC.

The audio DSP built into Vista is interesting, but will be more relevant to consumers than to the pro audio world. New audio and communication features include room correction (to find a “sweet spot” for the listener), bass management, loudness equalization DSP, acoustic cancellation (for communications), virtual surround (5.1 and 7.1), microphone array solutions, speaker phantoming, and various other audio features. Although designed primarily for media centers and home theater, it is interesting that Microsoft is focusing on these features, which could eventually make their way into music apps and plug-ins.

CALL SECURITY


Windows Vista eliminates the need for separate antispyware and firewall programs, as these security measures are built into the OS. There’s also a new User Account Control policy that changes the experience in a number of ways, most noticeably by preventing applications from auto-installing themselves without your approval — although unfortunately, you will be prompted for approval when installing legitimate applications as well.

Driver signing, while controversial, is designed to help increase Windows security by letting users identify the source of the software they are installing, thus avoiding malware (spyware, viruses, etc.). A “signed” driver (or any signed component) simply allows Windows Vista to verify the author of the software and assure it is from a trusted source. Without this signature, Windows Vista cannot tell whether the code is legitimate or a virus. In Vista, Windows validates that 64-bit drivers are signed before they are allowed to run. 32-bit versions of Windows Vista do not require signing to load a driver, but there are certain features that may not work (such as playing some protected content) if unsigned drivers are running.

Microsoft has not been too forthcoming over the new Digital Rights Management protection Vista will incorporate, but it seems there will be protection at the OS and driver level, and the ability to disable output depending on the digital rights incorporated in the media. DRM is important to musicians who want to protect content distributed to end users/consumers, but how it’s accepted — and whether it’s intrusive — remains to be seen.

DECISIONS, DECISIONS

Windows Vista comes in an array of packages: Windows Vista Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium, Ultimate, Business, and Enterprise. Windows Vista Starter is primarily a bare-bones version for developing countries that is not upgradeable; it is not available to the public, and can be purchased only preloaded on a computer. Home Basic supports only single processors, whereas the Business and Enterprise flavors are targeted at businesses that require additional networking and management capabilities.

Although Microsoft is testing audio on each Vista edition, most musicians and audio pros will want Windows Vista Home Premium as it supports multiprocessing system and incorporates features needed for pro audio. Choose Windows Vista Ultimate Edition if you need to connect to a server-based network, administer users, or host remote desktop sessions. If you don’t know which to get, start with Home Premium and upgrade to Windows Vista Ultimate later (the Control Panel’s Windows Anytime Update makes it easy to purchase and download a Window Vista upgrade). At press time, expected prices for Windows XP Home Edition are $200 new/$100 upgrade and for Windows Vista Home Premium, about $240 new/$160 upgrade. Windows Vista Ultimate will run about $400 new/$360 upgrade.

32/64: TWO REAL CHOICES


FOR MUSICIANS

64-bit computing is the future; not only will it eventually replace 32-bit computing, it offers significant advantages in audio production. Except for the Starter version, all Vista versions support 32-bit and 64-bit installations. Most audio apps are reported to run more efficiently in 64-bit systems; audio apps are highly processor and memory dependent, and 32-bit operation, being limited to accessing 4GB of memory, creates a major limitation. 64-bit supports 128GB right now, with theoretical limits being much higher.

Running 64-bit Vista requires having 64-bit drivers regardless of whether the applications that use them are native 64-bit, and all 64-bit drivers and kernel mode code must be signed. Software vendors will also have to build specific 64-bit versions to take advantage of 64-bit computing. Although you can run your 32-bit music apps on 64-bit machines, you’ll also need 64-bit plug-ins (or an adapter like Cakewalk’s) to use your 32-bit plug-ins on a 64-bit system running a 64-bit app.

I tested several music apps and they seemed to work well with the Windows Vista beta. Almost every hardware and software manufacturer will supposedly work with 32-bit Vista without any major change. There are some features in 64-bit Vista that will require changes by the manufacturers to enhance your experience (especially with regards to signed drivers); before you upgrade, check that your software and hardware are Vista-ready.

HASTA LA VISTA, BABY!


Will you want to upgrade to Windows Vista? If you are into audio on a PC, the answer is yes — but make sure all your audio apps and hardware are supported so they can take advantage of the significant audio improvements.

Overall, it’s clear that Microsoft is taking a big leap forward in providing a better music and pro audio platform. And this is just a peek of what’s to come, as Microsoft has mentioned that it plans to continue improving audio. Windows Vista represents a significant leap over Windows XP — and I think many musicians will be pleased with what’s coming.
 
R

Rhymer

Guest
I use a Tascam US-122L but it aint really working properly with vista

vista installs the midi drivers for it (Which don't work)

but the audio drivers won't install at all (not even with the CD or compatibility mode)

if any one knows when the new 32bit vista drivers for the tascam US-122L drop holla at me thru pm
 

Big Tone

You done fucked up
ill o.g.
i use nero and it says i need burning rights so i install it and my nero still doesnt work , fuck is up with that
 

LDB

Banned
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 73
i use nero and it says i need burning rights so i install it and my nero still doesnt work , fuck is up with that

Actually nero 7 which is the latest nero out I think is not compatible with vista. Vista won't let you install a centain element in the nero program that you need for it to work. I just recently bought a new computer which came preinstalled with Vista. It's going to take a long time before all the manufactures of of various prgs catch up to Vista. It's always like that when a new operating system drops. Some will catch up and get licensed others won't because they already have the next prg installment about to launch which means you'll have to buy that in order to use the prgs you like. I have a 320G built in hard drive and an external 250G, dual processor(fast) and 2G's of RAM expandable to 4G's. What I would do if I were you and most other people who jump on the Vista band wagon is set up your computer to dual boot between Vista and XP pro. Until most catch up to Vista and Microsoft works out all the bugs we all will continue to have problems with Vista. Dual boot with XP and you'll not want to throw your computer away and you'll stop cursing Microsoft! LOL

p.s. you have to have a big enough internal hard drive to dual boot so if you want to go this route make sure your computer is up to par. I partitioned and dedicated 40G to just windows xp and left the rest for Vista.
 

Big Tone

You done fucked up
ill o.g.
All i did was Right Click on the application (.exe file), go to Properties, Click on the Compatibility Tab. There should a few options. I checked off "Run this program in compatibility mode for:" and there should be a pull down tab that lists all the operating system (windows 95, Windows 2000, XP etc.) I chosed Windows XP and my shit is running smooth like a baby's ass. This should also work for any kinds of applications, games, music softwares, etc. Give it a try if your Windows VISTA is pissing you the fuck off like it did to me. But now, I guess I'm starting to appreciate it now.

Before you install any software make sure you do this otherwise, your setup might not work. I hope this helped some of yall.

thats wassup. good looks
 

Big Tone

You done fucked up
ill o.g.
thats wassup. good looks

nope that didnt work. nero 5 or below is not compatible with vista. my boy gave me his copy of 7 since he just got a new dvd burner. i hate the interface of 6 and 7. thats why i never upgraded.
 

dBoy100

Member
ill o.g.
Whenever i try to open Aobe 2.0 i get an error message saying 'Adobe audition could not find an audio device. Please check device settings.'

Anybody have a suggestion?
 

LDB

Banned
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 73
Whenever i try to open Aobe 2.0 i get an error message saying 'Adobe audition could not find an audio device. Please check device settings.'

Anybody have a suggestion?

Dual boot and install windows xp....I don't think vista will ever be work with most music software. It's probably a drive issue that you have. Vista most likely doesn't have drivers for the programs that you're trying to use.
 

dacalion

Hands Of FIRE!
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 259
This is a problem that I've discovered in Vista and ProTools, for some odd reason, ProTools is taking their time updating their software so that there will be no issues with Vista. Say what you want about Vista but it's a helluva lot easier on the eyes than XP mainly because Vista has a font smoothing feature where it blurs the edges of each letter you type or read. It makes everything alot smoother in appearance.

Here's the main problem, if you have Vista, you have to turn off the font smoothing feature in order to run ProTools, thats fine but when youre using your pc for anything other than PT, the letters look like they were typed on a 1960 model typewriter, very hard on the eyes. That sux and you would think that PT would fix this issue being as big as they are.

MOF
 

718

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
i dont know if it was already posted, if it is my bad im really too lazy to read the whole thread,

sometimes if u want to run an app, u need to right click the shortcut or app>propterties>compatibility tab>check "Run as Administrator", it might just ask u yes or no when u start the program, but for some programs it doesnt, which actually needs them to run as admin to work properly..... just my knowledge
 
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